the line break IS the punctuation

81.82% • 9 votes • yea
18.18% • 2 votes • nay
Total votes: 11
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the line break IS the punctuation

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Ahavati
Tyrant of Words
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What is this punctuation you speak of, anna of grin gables?

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todski28
Fire of Insight
Australia
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I think its never a hard rule in poetry, but knowing the why and whatfors of as many tools as you can understand and using them with conscious intent is as important probably more important than simply using one or the other, or perhaps a mish mash of both.

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DaisyGrace
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I disagree. If there is not punctuation, then the ideas get jumbled. Kind of like a run on sentence. Sure, a line break can give the reader a pause from reading. But the ideas/word pictures/metaphors/etc all run together.

Plus a line break doesnít give us any clues about whether the line is a question or statement. It doesnít indicate excitement/anger/general loudness the way an exclamation mark would.

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DaisyGrace
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Of course, if the line break isnít the end of a sentence, then it does not warrant punctuation.

What Iím trying to say is: I appreciate punctuation in a poem, but every line break does not need punctuation. Does that make sense?

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todski28
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Do you prefer the hard rules and guidelines of structured writing without the interpretational variables that often come associated with punctuationless poetry? (Not challenging simply curious, though your answer is clear enough i wonder if there are exceptions for you and why?)

It took me a long time to get used to reading poetry without punctuation, it's more demanding on the reader from my perspective but allows more of an investment from the reader into the write, i.e. the reward you gain from the extra effort is a personal interpretation rather than having a pattern guiding you it allows for a more active poetic voice from the reader, rather than being acted upon.

The other reason, my understanding of and use of punctuation is flawed, I'm unable to write with consistant enough punctuation prowess to control the writing. Its easier for me to attempt line breaks and enjambment to create pauses and breaths, it seems to work better for my understanding of writing.... though that could be construed as a copout to trying to learn the proper nuance of punctuation


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DaisyGrace
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I do not prefer hard rules and guidelines. I prefer readability, I guess. Believe me, Iím not a grammar enforcer on others, or myself. But, in my opinion, everything is easier to read with a bit of punctuation.

I use line breaks to provide emphasis in my stanzas. Just because I hit enter does not mean that thought/sentence is over. It means I want specific words to stand on their own, within the though/sentence.

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todski28
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DaisyGrace said:I do not prefer hard rules and guidelines. I prefer readability, I guess. Believe me, Iím not a grammar enforcer on others, or myself. But, in my opinion, everything is easier to read with a bit of punctuation.

I use line breaks to provide emphasis in my stanzas. Just because I hit enter does not mean that thought/sentence is over. It means I want specific words to stand on their own, within the though/sentence.


So for me this has articulated my first post here, better to understand the rules before you start dispensing with them

I believe the key is to know why you are doing what you are doing. And knowing what you are attempting for the readers sake and your own, readability and intended message should be paramount, unless youre being didactic or vogonish

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lepperochan
Craic-in-a-box
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Palestine
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Hullo, Daisy


I dunno if anyone was suggesting a line-break could be any punctuation mark. certainly it can do the job of a comma and full stop. and can work in tandem with other non-punctuation punctuation like stanza breaks, double/ triple spaces between words, and all that jazz

So, essentially even without punctuation there is punctuation. -in a non punctuate kinda way-






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DaisyGrace
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I am so confused.

Apparently Iím not articulating well.

Ah well!

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Miss_Sub
- Missy -
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I have to say Iím with Grin on this one. The line break is also punctuation. Iíve been doing this for years.

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Gahddess_Worship
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Are there any universally recognized guidelines for punctuation in poetry? I too was mildly criticized for not using enough punctuation and now I want to know what is standard practice...if that exists. One of my issues with criticism is I am never sure of the credentials of the critic. Do they possess higher knowledge of meter, structure, grammar, punctuation etc.  and is that knowledge based on education or experience only...which, by the way, I don't see as a bad thing. I do not doubt the talent of our more seasoned poets but I would like to know the basis for their instruction. Having worked in law for so many years, as a computer guy not lawyer, I have become accustomed to best practices. Where are they found in poetry?

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Ahavati
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Gahddess_Worship said:Are there any universally recognized guidelines for punctuation in poetry? I too was mildly criticized for not using enough punctuation and now I want to know what is standard practice...if that exists. One of my issue with criticism is I am never sure of the credentials of the critic. Do they posses higher knowledge of meter, structure, grammar, punctuation etc.  and is that knowledge based on education of merely experience. I do not doubt the talent of our more seasoned poets but I would like to know the basis for their instruction.

Have you asked them? Do they cite grammar rules? Do they provide links that can assist you learn?  Or do you request any of the above?

I will say that self-education isn't to be frowned upon, look at some of the greatest poets who had no college education:  Ray Bradbury, Maya Angelou, Truman Capote,  Mark Twain,  H. G. Wells, Jack London, Augusten Burroughs, Charles Dickens, and so on. . .

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Gahddess_Worship
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I agree in re: those greats you have mentioned. But it can also be said that they followed the beat of their own drummer with regard to conventions of poetry. A fact, I believe that lends to the beauty and power of their work. They are/were authentic, true to themselves.

I have not been seriously critiqued enough to ask for credentials.

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Ahavati
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Gahddess_Worship said:I agree in re: those greats you have mentioned. But it can also be said that they followed the beat of their own drummer with regard to conventions of poetry. A fact, I believe that lends to the beauty and power of their work. They are/were authentic, true to themselves.

I have not been seriously critiqued enough to ask for credentials.


Then join HCC and submit ( if critique is what you want ).

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Blackwolf
I.M.Blackwolf
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I would say all rules :

1. Are made to be broken

2. Are dysfunctional attempts at mind programming ,

rigid gestapo like tactics for demanding obedience ,

often determined by those having a pre - disposition

to anal retentiveness , and influenced by academic criteria

passed down from one anal retentive to others , over the

period of many years , if not the ages

3. Example ( my poetry ) :


Linguistic Abuse:


Elucidating Elequoessentially

Can Be Most Challenging Mentally ,

Yet In The Word Itself May Be Heard

Half Buried And Half Interred ,

A Sense Of Scent Of Verbal Abuse

A Linguistic Madman Breaking Loose

From Norms Of Language Rearranged

Thought Out Of Box And Bars Of The Cage

Set Upon A Stagnant Lettered Populace

A Tongue Twisting Masked Fiend Preposterous !

( and that is a tame one...read my rap poems )

4. Please consult James Joyce , before any final statements

5. My Grammar always said : Whatever Works !

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