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Is established form important to you when writing poetry?

bigdougsoutho
Lost Thinker
Joined 21st Nov 2017
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Am I alone in the belief that poetry should be without constraints? I mean it should evoke emotion and we as writers should strive to find new and better ways to convey this emotion. I am not saying that we should use archaic or obscure language to do this, and I am also not saying that only simple common language should be used either.
      I often wonder if we must adhere to standards of form and constantly be aware of cadence and rhyme scheme and such when writing. For example, if I was to say that a writer is trying to convey a disassociated state would they not use the words that best express this state of being, but also ignore standard form and intentionally break fluidity and predictability to enhance the feel and mood of the piece?
     The premise for this is to explore the diversity and dynamics that drive not only what we write, but how we write it. I personally have chosen to ignore most established style and form, not as a personal rebellion against the literary world, but because my writing reflects who I am.
     I am not fluid. I am jagged and rough – but soft and emotional at the same time. My life has never had a smooth transition, it has always been abrupt and painful. When I try to write in an established form, it only seems foreign and forced.
     I am very curious to hear other writer’s opinions on this, not to judge, but to see the differences and similarities that have brought us all here.

lepperochan
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Hello and welcome

I just write. but sometimes I try established forms. plus I like to read established forms sometimes, that said I don't really go looking for them, they come to me

thank you

Dr_MANCHILD
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There are no strict rules for art. I think what is best is whatever conveys best. Sometimes that's adhering to rules and forms other times it's turning everything onto its head other more is somewhere in between.  

Herakleitos
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Joined 18th Nov 2017
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I find this an interesting argument, and the answer really depends on which direction you want poetry to take. Most prefer a lyrical style of poetry, where they choose what sounds and fits best rather than any form, and then there are strict traditionalists (though very few in public view now) that choose form above and beyond the clarity and flexibility of lyrical or loose poetry writing.

I myself always use some form of meter/syllable scheme in all my poems, rhyming being more loose and the pattern of the meter changing halfway through the poem if I feel more clarity is needed.

I do not think formless poetry is possible, since even the languages we speak have form designed into them. This is what makes onomatopoeia, accents, stream of consciousness, and other forms of breaking form exciting to read sometimes since it introduces a new level to look at.

But you will notice one thing that is clear in even poems that close to formless, and it is that they usually are consistent. They usually have repeated onomatopoeia or rhymes or meter or accents or train of thoughts. When it is truly formless it becomes gibberish and material you can not appreciate unless you were a Chtulu die hard.

Breaking form is a type of form, it is just different from traditional writing constraints of using meter and rhyme. It is still a scheme, but different in the same way that a architecture scheme and a robbery scheme are different. They are still plans detailing how things will go, one is simply has more room to be improvised than the other.

I would prefer if the stigma towards form was less prevalent. I think it is more healthy to try different ways of expressing yourself through words, especially using forms that break traditional form, and this requires using a form.

If you have an idea to express, clarity beats form and writing with a loose form is best.
If you are bored or want to be creative, then a strict form to adhere to is best. Just remember that you can use whatever form you want, even if it does not exist or is bizarre and abstract. The point of poetry is not only to express ideas, but to do so in a unique and artistic way visually when on paper. I would reckon to say songs are like poetry but focused on how it is heard rather than seen. That is my two piece on the subject.

bigdougsoutho
Lost Thinker
Joined 21st Nov 2017
Forum Posts: 5

That is a great response, exactly the kind of thing I was looking for! I appreciate the thoughtful insight and I agree with much of what you said. Although I stated that I pay little attention to form, I have to agree that it still shines through, no matter how disjointed or jagged, the elements are always there. Like you said in regards to meter it just is there. We all learn certain words and phases that are connected by our own personal associations as we develop language skills. I love to read other writer's work, I love the discussion, the critiquing, and it is always fascinating how through discussions you learn a great deal about the author's perspective. I believe it is a good thing to view the world through other's perspectives, which is what poetry really is, and at the same time it helps us to gain insight into our own.

0bs3ss3dp0ss3ss3d
William Colten Sorrells
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Personally, I just let my words fall how they may. That being said, I doubt that anyone would like to read my grocery list. A poem should have some particular sort of aim, not just be a random collection of images

Dr_MANCHILD
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0bs3ss3dp0ss3ss3d said:A poem should have some particular sort of aim, not just be a random collection of images

Could a random collection of images be the aim?

0bs3ss3dp0ss3ss3d
William Colten Sorrells
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Dr_MANCHILD said:

Could a random collection of images be the aim?


Hmm.... Perhaps if your aim is to accomplish nothing in particular. Evoke no particular thought or emotion.

Dr_MANCHILD
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0bs3ss3dp0ss3ss3d said:
...accomplish nothing in particular. Evoke no particular thought or emotion.


Randomness can evoke a desired outcome: confusion, anger, discomfort, questioning.

Herakleitos
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Joined 18th Nov 2017
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But to do so you have to put direction to the randomness to express that. To break form is a type of form, because in order to stay random you have to put a method to it that prevents form which is a form.

After reading all this I feel like writing some form breaking poems, it would be rather fun to see.

lepperochan
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0bs3ss3dp0ss3ss3d said: A poem should have some particular sort of aim, not just be a random collection of images


I don't think a poem should be anything except the words of the poet. once you start putting 'should' into poetry, you've lost

0bs3ss3dp0ss3ss3d
William Colten Sorrells
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Well, I mean it all depends on whether or not you intend to actually do anything with your words, I suppose

Herakleitos
Strange Creature
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I do not think anyone "should" do anything in particular with poetry, or that it can even have such a thing. Poetry originated as an artistic way to present words, and so will go many directions as art.

The odd thing about poetry is that no mater what you do, you will be doing "something" and doing that will take "form". I just think having a stigma with formless writing and form writing is silly, since neither can exist purely since we have to use form, even if that form is an attempted lack there of (which is a form in itself). You can not truly break form unless you stop using words, which is counterintuitive.

In sum, everything we do has form of some kind as long as we are using words or making up words, even if that is done by scraping the lunatic honey from the insides of your mind and throwing it down onto the page.

fiveamtuesday
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Poetry is whatever is fun to read, whether it's through substance or structure.

Dr_MANCHILD
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Heraklitos, I'm enchanted by your philosophical perspectives.  

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