Page:
The 'Viddaxian' Soul
To avoid the risk of further off-topic talk (talk about souls rather than multiple profiles) this thread will serve as the place for it. Also a handy location for me to keep the accumulated ramblings and thoughts on the 'soul'.
Given the title of this thread and past conversations on another thread, this thread will most likely be more about discussion than debate. Simply because in terms of the 'Viddaxian' soul absolutely no one can tell me I am utterly wrong, they can only point out flaws in the details, not the overall idea.
It is quite possible this thread will soon drift into obscurity, but might as well bail if the ship is already sinking!
Given the title of this thread and past conversations on another thread, this thread will most likely be more about discussion than debate. Simply because in terms of the 'Viddaxian' soul absolutely no one can tell me I am utterly wrong, they can only point out flaws in the details, not the overall idea.
It is quite possible this thread will soon drift into obscurity, but might as well bail if the ship is already sinking!
The soul is the essence of an individual. It is all that they are, could be, and wish to be, but it is still a very individual centred thing. A soul absorb every conscious and unconscious experience but manifests as the essence of an individual. The human experience only has one soul; that soul can grow and shrink but is mostly limited to the oneness. Upon meeting a kindred spirit, match made in heaven, or 'right crowd' then the individual souls expand and meld to create a shared experience: something greater than the sum of its parts but made of individual souls.
A soul is basically a bag waiting to be filled by the individual, rather than a template that dictates the individual. Though the soul will tend to point the individual in certain directions, similar to how a compass points towards the north or how some supermarket trolleys veer left or right but you want to go straight forwards.
The soul therefore has near limitless potential, but is the essence of an individual more than their expanded potential. For an explorer the soul sums up them as an explorer but hints at the other paths they could have taken. If it were to return again and again then it would not be linear or predetermined: it would be unique to its circumstances and time, and prone to the multiple worlds theory so that even 'returning' would involve a change somewhere. (Soul of World 1 earth 'returns' to World 1a earth but no fridges then 'returns' to 2a earth but no fridges and greener sunlight, and so and so forth.)
This description of a soul means that several human interactions interacting is impossible: the soul in each case is unique and an essence of individuals, rather than something that binds them all together such as anima mundi. In this case, the soul is the anima, and the interconnecting thread is the anima mundi.
There are also some experiences and viewpoints that even with a million years and million souls, or even an infinite years and infinite souls, would not experience. Not just because of probability, but because it is simply not meant to be. Meaning that some artists: poets, writers, singers, performers, simply cannot get that stance or style because it is not within their capability, just like how everyone else cannot do everything. Not because their soul is not big enough, but because essentially it is not them, although it might be someone else.
The accumulation of all souls has the potential for everything, but lacks the physical being and individual to make them happen, or rather it has happened and will happen but is not possible for the individual. If the individual is transcended then the multiple is possible but lacks the definition of the individual, but only in arbitrary classification. - as opposed to multiple profiles on DU where the multiple (the different) is possible but is then segregated in perception while still being part of the individual.
In other words the former case is a hand of many fingers that only classifies which finger is moving when needed, whereas the DU latter case is an index finger moving but attempting to claim that there is no hand which it is attached to.
Not quite. The essence of water or a lake is water, but the essence of an individual is not so easily reduced down to one single point. Even then the soul of things that are not human beings are not single words either. The soul of Mt. Fuji is not simply rock or snow. Though the idea that everything has a soul, is not as widespread or popular as the idea that only human beings have souls.
The soul in this example or theory is not simply the essence of an individual, in the idea that essence means 'boils down to' or 'is just x'. Here essence refers to the accumulated and potential, rather than the fundamental. So the soul of an explorer is all the places they've explored and their desire for exploration, not simply meaning in essence they are 'exploring' or 'an explorer'.
Do you mean do multiple personas expand the soul or annex other souls instead?
With this idea of soul, which there is probably no term yet so lets just go with Viddaxian Soul because imbuing something with ego is better than letting someone else claim it for darker purposes!
Anyway, the Viddaxian soul is like a rainbow cloak that fits round you, so if you have over a thousand multiple personas then that cloak still fits around you and shows the colours to the world. If anything the more personas that are adopted, the more the soul becomes defined based off of the original rather than the multiple personas. The multiples become simply additions and expanded possibilities than the defining essence; though parts of the multiple will also form part of the essence. However the more multiples, the more watered down the multiples become in the soul overall: the soul being a hot air balloon and multiple personas being different gasses which make the balloon bigger and only count under intense scrutiny.
A soul cannot annex anything as it is an essence of an individual. The cloak does do anything more than cover; it is the individual underneath who can 'annex' by picking up and holding more values, attributes, experiences and behaviour.
However the soul is future-proof in that it already sums up all that you are and will be. Plus the soul is not measured or regarded in terms of quantity as it is like measuring the length or oranges, pears and bananas when buying a smartphone for money: it is completely beside the point. Whether the soul is bigger or smaller has no relevance, as the soul just is; it is an individual in essence, and each essence is irrecoverably unique and without value.
A soul is basically a bag waiting to be filled by the individual, rather than a template that dictates the individual. Though the soul will tend to point the individual in certain directions, similar to how a compass points towards the north or how some supermarket trolleys veer left or right but you want to go straight forwards.
The soul therefore has near limitless potential, but is the essence of an individual more than their expanded potential. For an explorer the soul sums up them as an explorer but hints at the other paths they could have taken. If it were to return again and again then it would not be linear or predetermined: it would be unique to its circumstances and time, and prone to the multiple worlds theory so that even 'returning' would involve a change somewhere. (Soul of World 1 earth 'returns' to World 1a earth but no fridges then 'returns' to 2a earth but no fridges and greener sunlight, and so and so forth.)
This description of a soul means that several human interactions interacting is impossible: the soul in each case is unique and an essence of individuals, rather than something that binds them all together such as anima mundi. In this case, the soul is the anima, and the interconnecting thread is the anima mundi.
There are also some experiences and viewpoints that even with a million years and million souls, or even an infinite years and infinite souls, would not experience. Not just because of probability, but because it is simply not meant to be. Meaning that some artists: poets, writers, singers, performers, simply cannot get that stance or style because it is not within their capability, just like how everyone else cannot do everything. Not because their soul is not big enough, but because essentially it is not them, although it might be someone else.
The accumulation of all souls has the potential for everything, but lacks the physical being and individual to make them happen, or rather it has happened and will happen but is not possible for the individual. If the individual is transcended then the multiple is possible but lacks the definition of the individual, but only in arbitrary classification. - as opposed to multiple profiles on DU where the multiple (the different) is possible but is then segregated in perception while still being part of the individual.
In other words the former case is a hand of many fingers that only classifies which finger is moving when needed, whereas the DU latter case is an index finger moving but attempting to claim that there is no hand which it is attached to.
Not quite. The essence of water or a lake is water, but the essence of an individual is not so easily reduced down to one single point. Even then the soul of things that are not human beings are not single words either. The soul of Mt. Fuji is not simply rock or snow. Though the idea that everything has a soul, is not as widespread or popular as the idea that only human beings have souls.
The soul in this example or theory is not simply the essence of an individual, in the idea that essence means 'boils down to' or 'is just x'. Here essence refers to the accumulated and potential, rather than the fundamental. So the soul of an explorer is all the places they've explored and their desire for exploration, not simply meaning in essence they are 'exploring' or 'an explorer'.
Do you mean do multiple personas expand the soul or annex other souls instead?
With this idea of soul, which there is probably no term yet so lets just go with Viddaxian Soul because imbuing something with ego is better than letting someone else claim it for darker purposes!
Anyway, the Viddaxian soul is like a rainbow cloak that fits round you, so if you have over a thousand multiple personas then that cloak still fits around you and shows the colours to the world. If anything the more personas that are adopted, the more the soul becomes defined based off of the original rather than the multiple personas. The multiples become simply additions and expanded possibilities than the defining essence; though parts of the multiple will also form part of the essence. However the more multiples, the more watered down the multiples become in the soul overall: the soul being a hot air balloon and multiple personas being different gasses which make the balloon bigger and only count under intense scrutiny.
A soul cannot annex anything as it is an essence of an individual. The cloak does do anything more than cover; it is the individual underneath who can 'annex' by picking up and holding more values, attributes, experiences and behaviour.
However the soul is future-proof in that it already sums up all that you are and will be. Plus the soul is not measured or regarded in terms of quantity as it is like measuring the length or oranges, pears and bananas when buying a smartphone for money: it is completely beside the point. Whether the soul is bigger or smaller has no relevance, as the soul just is; it is an individual in essence, and each essence is irrecoverably unique and without value.
Hullo
I meant annex itself to facilitate more individuals or create chambers.
the Viddaxian soul as per rainbow cloak analogy could be summed up as a person's skin. in tangible terms, the skin is what holds everything in
-encompasses all despite numbers of personalities
I get the general gust of the breeze. 'all that you ever are and will be' must be a bit of an anti-climax for a soul to live out. when does it attain this knowledge ? I can see how it would work if the soul were to encourage or push, but the soul seems somewhat detached from interference
one might ask the point of having one at all
edit: I like the name. hope to hear it fearured in an episode of big bang
I meant annex itself to facilitate more individuals or create chambers.
the Viddaxian soul as per rainbow cloak analogy could be summed up as a person's skin. in tangible terms, the skin is what holds everything in
-encompasses all despite numbers of personalities
I get the general gust of the breeze. 'all that you ever are and will be' must be a bit of an anti-climax for a soul to live out. when does it attain this knowledge ? I can see how it would work if the soul were to encourage or push, but the soul seems somewhat detached from interference
one might ask the point of having one at all
edit: I like the name. hope to hear it fearured in an episode of big bang
hm. interesting idea, however; I disagree with the proneness of the Viddaxian soul to many worlds theory..since the Viddaxian soul can't be measured, has no value..and the many worlds theory is mathematical.
also, you assume the existence of a Viddaxian soul without any evidence
also, you assume the existence of a Viddaxian soul without any evidence
Umm -
The 'existence' is more to do with needing a term for this description of a soul, than any actual evidence for or against a soul in general. I was not aware the many worlds theory was mathematical. The soul, the Viddaxian soul, is not quantifiable or evidential as that would involve being able to be aware of it through multiple points in time: it is simply an umbrella term for the experiences and things that make up an individual.
Craic -
The Viddaxian soul is a passive thing without any consciousness: it is the lengthy description of an individual rather an active consciousness itself. It is like a slate or canvas: just as those have potential to be written on and become paintings, just does the Viddaxian soul have all the potentials of an individual already accounted for. It is so that an individual is summed up by not only what they are but what they wish or wished to be and what they could have been. A way to account for the dreams, hopes, aspirations, and private thoughts of an individual, on top of their actual experiences.
I highly doubt such a term would ever make it on a Big Bang Theory, not only because it is more philosophy than science but also because the term would have to be used outside of this website to stand half a chance. Though there is still time.
As to the name: a little ego goes a long way!
The 'existence' is more to do with needing a term for this description of a soul, than any actual evidence for or against a soul in general. I was not aware the many worlds theory was mathematical. The soul, the Viddaxian soul, is not quantifiable or evidential as that would involve being able to be aware of it through multiple points in time: it is simply an umbrella term for the experiences and things that make up an individual.
Craic -
The Viddaxian soul is a passive thing without any consciousness: it is the lengthy description of an individual rather an active consciousness itself. It is like a slate or canvas: just as those have potential to be written on and become paintings, just does the Viddaxian soul have all the potentials of an individual already accounted for. It is so that an individual is summed up by not only what they are but what they wish or wished to be and what they could have been. A way to account for the dreams, hopes, aspirations, and private thoughts of an individual, on top of their actual experiences.
I highly doubt such a term would ever make it on a Big Bang Theory, not only because it is more philosophy than science but also because the term would have to be used outside of this website to stand half a chance. Though there is still time.
As to the name: a little ego goes a long way!
It does not have life in the same sense as a human being or animal or plant: it is a passive thing of existence. It has life as in existence, but it does not have experiences as it is experiences which form it and it is the umbrella term for the existence. The only time it can have 'life' is when the human being, the individual, dies: it then lives but it is a pseudo-life as it's experiences from then on do not alter it beyond its current state. Think of it like a bacteria or parasite in that it relies upon a host, a living human being, and after that has a fuzzy kind of existence where it does not particularly grow or expand beyond what it is.
It is also not similar to a mind or brain as it is not conscience or the driving force, it has consciousness after the individual is dead but not based on electro-chemicals or grey matter or any sort of matter.
The purpose, or rather the existence, of the soul here is not to 'live' and experience but to contain the experiences. It is a balloon that without air is pretty much pointless: the Viddaxian soul without experiences and all that accounts for and resembles an individual contains nothing. As opposed to a Christian soul which given my extremely rough knowledge of it, has a more important role for an individual and is what drives them, rather than containing them as the Viddaxian one does.
Also being an umbrella term of the immaterial, means it can hardly be any organ or physical part of a person.
It is also not similar to a mind or brain as it is not conscience or the driving force, it has consciousness after the individual is dead but not based on electro-chemicals or grey matter or any sort of matter.
The purpose, or rather the existence, of the soul here is not to 'live' and experience but to contain the experiences. It is a balloon that without air is pretty much pointless: the Viddaxian soul without experiences and all that accounts for and resembles an individual contains nothing. As opposed to a Christian soul which given my extremely rough knowledge of it, has a more important role for an individual and is what drives them, rather than containing them as the Viddaxian one does.
Also being an umbrella term of the immaterial, means it can hardly be any organ or physical part of a person.
so, what you're basically trying to say is that a Viddaxian soul is a concept, a container for the experiences that occur in your lifetime, and that it exists because you exist but only just because, and in no tangible form? still, isn't that the same for most souls, but then it's only up to the individual is it to equate their soul to something already existent, or something that can be tarnished per se due to decisions made? although there are variations of how a soul is viewed within cultures, this seems like a pretty common and general perspective to me.
Craic -
With future-proofing no soul is ever 'young' or unformed: even in a disastrous case of the week old infant joining the choir invisible or pushing up the daisies (dying) their essence and soul can convey them as a being they did not yet have the chance to be.
Yellow-house -
Indeed: it pretty much is a concept, though with less attached connotations of heaven or hell as with the Christian concept of soul or soul featured in religion. It is a philosophical rather than a religious concept. The Viddaxian soul is also more about experience, than judgement or morality: it is beyond good and evil (which Nietzsche would be proud of most likely), but still has an optimistic view of humanity in that even with morally dubious experiences the soul can be good, as the intentions and capabilities are taken into account.
It is also based off a tangent in another thread, so I moved it here rather than extend the tangent.
David_Macleod -
Does that make you a sole-man then?
With future-proofing no soul is ever 'young' or unformed: even in a disastrous case of the week old infant joining the choir invisible or pushing up the daisies (dying) their essence and soul can convey them as a being they did not yet have the chance to be.
Yellow-house -
Indeed: it pretty much is a concept, though with less attached connotations of heaven or hell as with the Christian concept of soul or soul featured in religion. It is a philosophical rather than a religious concept. The Viddaxian soul is also more about experience, than judgement or morality: it is beyond good and evil (which Nietzsche would be proud of most likely), but still has an optimistic view of humanity in that even with morally dubious experiences the soul can be good, as the intentions and capabilities are taken into account.
It is also based off a tangent in another thread, so I moved it here rather than extend the tangent.
David_Macleod -
Does that make you a sole-man then?
"With future-proofing no soul is ever 'young' or unformed: even in a disastrous case of the week old infant joining the choir invisible or pushing up the daisies (dying) their essence and soul can convey them as a being they did not yet have the chance to be. "
fair enough, Viddax. it's a decent enough concept, I suppose my only nit with it would be there's no life in it. ( as said up there somewhere ) I understand this is your concept and your Vidaxian has no life ( as such)
that's to say .. again : WHY WON'T YOU GIVE IT CONSCIOUSNESS! !
come on, man !!
It doesn't need consciousness! Its not the soul as we know it: the thing that makes a person that person. The Viddaxian soul is the concept of the soul as a holding bag, as a book: it holds experience. Any consciousness is only present in the individual when they live.
Upon death the soul transcends consciousness, transcends sentience: the Viddaxian version is aware and 'conscious' of all things and all beings as the state of being an individual, a single thing, is transcended, with the soul being a thing in flux rather than in a single state. By containing experience of past and future, what was and what could be, it is capable of more change, or rather appears to be more changeable than a soul which presents itself as one thing that sums up an individual.
Consciousness is needed in souls which are an individual, unlike the Viddaxian concept where it is the experiences of an individual, but also the endless possibility of that individual, and also in context of being part of all souls and beings and matter.
The Viddaxian soul in its natural state is as a 'second skin' to an individual; one that is more metaphysics than actual physical evident. In this state it serves as a book upon which the individual is written. To give the soul consciousness here would rob the individual of consciousness or free will or choice; or all of that and more. - As if the soul is conscious then it looks like the individual; more often than not a human being, is little more than a bag of skin and bones going through the pre-determined motions, rather than actively having choice in those motions and evolving to change rather than being driven by the nose without any pre-supposed change.
Most likely that needs clarification and editing, as I feel sure that some parts there are at odds with stuff I said earlier. All in order to stop Craic screaming about consciousness.
Upon death the soul transcends consciousness, transcends sentience: the Viddaxian version is aware and 'conscious' of all things and all beings as the state of being an individual, a single thing, is transcended, with the soul being a thing in flux rather than in a single state. By containing experience of past and future, what was and what could be, it is capable of more change, or rather appears to be more changeable than a soul which presents itself as one thing that sums up an individual.
Consciousness is needed in souls which are an individual, unlike the Viddaxian concept where it is the experiences of an individual, but also the endless possibility of that individual, and also in context of being part of all souls and beings and matter.
The Viddaxian soul in its natural state is as a 'second skin' to an individual; one that is more metaphysics than actual physical evident. In this state it serves as a book upon which the individual is written. To give the soul consciousness here would rob the individual of consciousness or free will or choice; or all of that and more. - As if the soul is conscious then it looks like the individual; more often than not a human being, is little more than a bag of skin and bones going through the pre-determined motions, rather than actively having choice in those motions and evolving to change rather than being driven by the nose without any pre-supposed change.
Most likely that needs clarification and editing, as I feel sure that some parts there are at odds with stuff I said earlier. All in order to stop Craic screaming about consciousness.
