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sexual abuse and violence against men

chump
Thought Provoker
United States 6awards
Joined 30th Sep 2014
Forum Posts: 417

The media and Hollywood influence our culture. While men grabbing women or hitting women is portrayed as wrong with the perpetrator cast as a villian. What about when a women grabs a mans ass or hits him, then often presented as in the right.

Predator 2...
Man is telling woman a joke trying to get to know her on his first day at work. She grabs his ball and threatens him with losing them.. Everyone laughs and jokes and high fives her... What if a man did this???

Even children are subjected to this reversal. In harry potter herminey punches draco in the face for saying something she doesn't like and Ron says "brilliant"...

Can't rember the movie Cameron Diaz opens the door and punches boyfriend in the face for cheating...
If s man hits his girlfriend for cheating he goes to jail...

Armegeddon... Woman throws down a crippled man and no one stops her.


This is just a small part of the two sets of rules our culture is making.

Does anyone but me think this is a problem?



RevolutionAL
Alistair Plint
Dangerous Mind
South Africa 29awards
Joined 24th July 2012
Forum Posts: 1257

Oh hell yeah!

I am fully in suport of equality. I believe woman should have the same opportunities as men. Manage the same penalisation processes and suffer the same consequences. I then also feel they deserve
to be treated with respect and afforded
the same perks and bennefits in all things


✊Viva! Feminism! Viva!✊

chump
Thought Provoker
United States 6awards
Joined 30th Sep 2014
Forum Posts: 417

I would be content with equal but this is not

Jestalessa
Dangerous Mind
Scotland 35awards
Joined 27th July 2010
Forum Posts: 2329

if i may....

i think you could be right in that there seems to be a fair bit of overcompensation happening in the last couple of decades. but remember, women in the UK only got the right to vote, not even a hundred years ago, and were publicly beaten, berated, mocked for even thinking they should be allowed to have as much say as a man in who gets to make laws that apply to them. women were not allowed to own property, were seen as property themselves, first as their father's, then given to a husband.... and ever since, have been labeled "the weaker sex", "the fairer sex", often "hysterical" and "too emotional".... we've come a long way in the last 90 years, even just trying to establish ourselves in the world as worthy of an opinion. society needs to learn how to accept women as equals, and this is how they're normalising it, maybe..

the pendulum may be swinging a little far just now.... i expect it will settle down and even itself out.

chump
Thought Provoker
United States 6awards
Joined 30th Sep 2014
Forum Posts: 417

Jestalessa said:if i may....

i think you could be right in that there seems to be a fair bit of overcompensation happening in the last couple of decades. but remember, women in the UK only got the right to vote, not even a hundred years ago, and were publicly beaten, berated, mocked for even thinking they should be allowed to have as much say as a man in who gets to make laws that apply to them. women were not allowed to own property, were seen as property themselves, first as their father's, then given to a husband.... and ever since, have been labeled "the weaker sex", "the fairer sex", often "hysterical" and "too emotional".... we've come a long way in the last 90 years, even just trying to establish ourselves in the world as worthy of an opinion. society needs to learn how to accept women as equals, and this is how they're normalising it, maybe..

the pendulum may be swinging a little far just now.... i expect it will settle down and even itself out.
carful use of words jest.. Like GOT the right to vote. I would use given the right to vote. This implies a positive gesture on the part of men but no one seems to want that.. EQUAL, men and women are not equal.. Men should treat women fairly not equally. This can be accomplished. Equal requires denial of facts.. I can't wait for things that men did 100 years ago to not be the driving force behind most women's opinions of the men today.. It seems more like an exponentially growing machine with voracious teeth than a pendulum but I hope your right

Jestalessa
Dangerous Mind
Scotland 35awards
Joined 27th July 2010
Forum Posts: 2329

chump said: carful use of words jest.. Like GOT the right to vote. I would use given the right to vote. This implies a positive gesture on the part of men but no one seems to want that.. EQUAL, men and women are not equal.. Men should treat women fairly not equally. This can be accomplished. Equal requires denial of facts.. I can't wait for things that men did 100 years ago to not be the driving force behind most women's opinions of the men today.. It seems more like an exponentially growing machine with voracious teeth than a pendulum but I hope your right

as careful as i should have been, i suppose i wasn't really trying to be. women fought and some even died *just* for the right to vote. how generous of men to "give" women the right to make decisions... i think "got" was the right word. they fought for it, they got it.

i'm not entirely sure, either, where one finds satisfaction in treating another human as less than, or as if you are in a position of authority over them.... as we're being careful with the words "fairly" vs. "equally". i would treat a woman with respect *equal to* the respect i would "give" a man in the same position, as they are both human beings.

if you're referring to men's body types vs. women's body types as the facts, there's no dispute that most men are traditionally larger and/or physically stronger than most women, though there are always exceptions. if you're referring to intellectual competence, we can argue that with documented facts and examples all day. if you're referring to emotional intelligence, same. attractiveness? all relative. [insert every comparison we could possibly make and none of it actually matters]

humans are humans and no man or woman is the same as any other....so should people not be treated (mostly) according to their individuality as opposed to whether they're male or female? what about people who are both? or neither?

*edit:
not accusing you of anything, i promise. just laying a thought or two. [:

chump
Thought Provoker
United States 6awards
Joined 30th Sep 2014
Forum Posts: 417

Jestalessa said:

as careful as i should have been, i suppose i wasn't really trying to be. women fought and some even died *just* for the right to vote. how generous of men to "give" women the right to make decisions... i think "got" was the right word. they fought for it, they got it.

i'm not entirely sure, either, where one finds satisfaction in treating another human as less than, or as if you are in a position of authority over them.... as we're being careful with the words "fairly" vs. "equally". i would treat a woman with respect *equal to* the respect i would "give" a man in the same position, as they are both human beings.

if you're referring to men's body types vs. women's body types as the facts, there's no dispute that most men are traditionally larger and/or physically stronger than most women, though there are always exceptions. if you're referring to intellectual competence, we can argue that with documented facts and examples all day. if you're referring to emotional intelligence, same. attractiveness? all relative. [insert every comparison we could possibly make and none of it actually matters]

humans are humans and no man or woman is the same as any other....so should people not be treated (mostly) according to their individuality as opposed to whether they're male or female? what about people who are both? or neither?

*edit:
not accusing you of anything, i promise. just laying a thought or two. [:
if women had to actually fight men for anything, they would lose..  

While physical strength is the most identifiable difference, I am referring to almost every aspect being different..  Without mention of which sex is superior at what. Everyone should be treated fairly but respect should be earned. Like giving up power you were born with because you think it is the right thing to do, which is what most men did for women where is my respect for that.  Instead we get sarcasm about how generous it was. Well it was generous of us look up the definition. And if you think women can fight to gain human rights, look at the countries where they have none and tell me what chance they have of changing it without men's help

You're right about one thing, a man can't force you to respect him it is "given"  but rarely...

poet Anonymous

chump said: carful use of words jest.. Like GOT the right to vote. I would use given the right to vote. This implies a positive gesture on the part of men but no one seems to want that..

Men denied women the right to vote; women fought hard to get something they should've have already had. To look at it as some benevolent gesture on the part of men is to deny history. If left to men to 'give' women the right to vote, do you think they'd have gotten it when they did? Would they ever have?

To your other points in the opening post: No, it's not funny when a woman physically abuses a man, and they should be held accountable for those actions.

But how is woman-on-man violence in movies so much more disturbing than man-on-man violence? Do you not cheer when the good guy punches the bad guy (re: your Harry Potter example)?

Does every man who punches his boyfriend go to jail? Of course not, because the person who gets hit has to report it. Many, many men hit women and never see jail time for that reason.

It's easy to use woman-on-man violence as a joke, because the assumption is that she couldn't have done much damage anyway... she's just a girl. The threat level is quite different. And there is satisfaction on some level when the underdog (which women generally are in contrast to men) 'gets even'.

You're right, things aren't equal between men and women; they aren't fair. Women still have quite a way to go for that.

chump
Thought Provoker
United States 6awards
Joined 30th Sep 2014
Forum Posts: 417

mariekeys said:

Men denied women the right to vote; women fought hard to get something they should've have already had. To look at it as some benevolent gesture on the part of men is to deny history. If left to men to 'give' women the right to vote, do you think they'd have gotten it when they did? Would they ever have?

To your other points in the opening post: No, it's not funny when a woman physically abuses a man, and they should be held accountable for those actions.

But how is woman-on-man violence in movies so much more disturbing than man-on-man violence? Do you not cheer when the good guy punches the bad guy (re: your Harry Potter example)?

Does every man who punches his boyfriend go to jail? Of course not, because the person who gets hit has to report it. Many, many men hit women and never see jail time for that reason.

It's easy to use woman-on-man violence as a joke, because the assumption is that she couldn't have done much damage anyway... she's just a girl. The threat level is quite different. And there is satisfaction on some level when the underdog (which women generally are in contrast to men) 'gets even'.

You're right, things aren't equal between men and women; they aren't fair. Women still have quite a way to go for that.
you are delusional if you think women fought men and won their rights.. Yes men many years ago denied them the right to vote because they could because men are stronger than women and strength IS Power.

If men with the right to vote hadn't used their earned rights to give women theirs they would still have none..

Woman on man violence is worse than man on man violence because man on woman violence is worse... If herminy said something draco didn't like and he punched her it would not have been OK...

Please tell me the real history of how women took their rights by force ...

"Gets even"  that's what you mean by equal

poet Anonymous

chump said:If men with the right to vote hadn't used their earned rights to give women theirs they would still have none..

If women hadn't fought for their right to vote, "earned it", do you think that the men who had so long denied them the right to vote would have given in when they did? Of course not. That's the exact point I made. No one mentioned force except you.

People of privilege are always worried that any relinquishing of their power in society will mean that those who've been denied their rights want to "get even." Thank you for demonstrating that.

seekingkate
kateA
Tyrant of Words
Australia 28awards
Joined 20th May 2014
Forum Posts: 2079

May I suggest chump that your loosely termed ‘research’ be taken further than the shite that Hollywood and the like produce.

Your comments are offensive and smack of the belief that the male sex is more intelligent and therefore dominant of the female sex.

This belief is where the imbalance is, where the likes of Donald Trump think that they can do whatever they want, get whatever they want not only in relation to women and how they treat them but how they treat the world at large, e.g. how they rule a country.

The suffragettes, Google the name chump, that is what the women were called who fought for the right to vote and not every woman believed it was their right because they were deadened by the belief that man knew best in everything.

New Zealand was the first country in the world to give women the vote in 1893, therefore in some countries around the world women have had that right for over 100 years.  Countries like Britain and the USA dragged their feet.

Dare I say that the men who agreed that women should have the vote were men before their time, who could see the world would benefit from unity not from disunity.

It is not about male against female, it is about how you treat another human being regardless of sex, regardless of colour, regardless of religion and beliefs and to take it one step further it is how you treat any living entity, how you treat the planet you live on.

Yes, there is imbalance everywhere in everything and there are those who are standing up to be counted to correct it but it is not a male/female thing, it goes way deeper than that.




chump
Thought Provoker
United States 6awards
Joined 30th Sep 2014
Forum Posts: 417

mariekeys said:

If women hadn't fought for their right to vote, "earned it", do you think that the men who had so long denied them the right to vote would have given in when they did? Of course not. That's the exact point I made. No one mentioned force except you.

People of privilege are always worried that any relinquishing of their power in society will mean that those who've been denied their rights want to "get even." Thank you for demonstrating that.
you sound like you went to the democrat school of twist what they say
Your the one who said people like to see the under dog get even..I was pointing out not using out of fear.. I have no fear..I'm doing fine. I just call it like I see it and this equal stuff is more like a punitive reversal of power. I'm not afraid, women should be. Men in this country are in rapid decline. If this country declines as well from these punitive attitudes women only stand to lose rights. In case you havent notice women have more rights than men these days.Its so unfair that its almost taboo to have my opinion..

And I used the word force because I don't believe you can win a fight without force and you used the word fight. Fighting for something without the use of force is more like nagging...

And if you need to ask again if I believe that the men would just give them their rights, your not listening. That's exactly what I believe

chump
Thought Provoker
United States 6awards
Joined 30th Sep 2014
Forum Posts: 417

seekingkate said:
May I suggest chump that your loosely termed ‘research’ be taken further than the shite that Hollywood and the like produce.

Your comments are offensive and smack of the belief that the male sex is more intelligent and therefore dominant of the female sex.

This belief is where the imbalance is, where the likes of Donald Trump think that they can do whatever they want, get whatever they want not only in relation to women and how they treat them but how they treat the world at large, e.g. how they rule a country.

The suffragettes, Google the name chump, that is what the women were called who fought for the right to vote and not every woman believed it was their right because they were deadened by the belief that man knew best in everything.

New Zealand was the first country in the world to give women the vote in 1893, therefore in some countries around the world women have had the right to vote for over 100 years.  Countries like Britain and the USA dragged their feet.

Dare I say that the men who agreed that women should have the vote were men before their time, who could see the world would benefit from unity not from disunity.

It is not about male against female, it is about how you treat another human being regardless of sex, regardless of colour, regardless of religion and beliefs and to take it one step further it is how you treat any living entity, how you treat the planet you live on.

Yes, there is imbalance everywhere in everything and there are those who are standing up to be counted to correct it but it is not a male/female thing, it goes way deeper than that.



again your words in my mouth I have said nothing about anything except physical strength not intelligence or any other trait. I even said that once already

I'm hip to the history. Its a definition thing... Women like to say they fought for rights. And I think fight is to strong a word. I know how it went.. Why can't women admit that most American men already did the right thing a long time ago and quit blaming us because it hadn't been long enough for things to even out.. I don't want to rule you.  I just want the recognition for the men that made you equal by law without being forced to do so..

And its the women that are making everything about male or female and no deeper than that..look at the election topics if interest..

poet Anonymous

chump said:you sound like you went to the democrat school of twist what they say
Your the one who said people like to see the under dog get even..


Yes, in terms of Hollywood, underdog themes are very popular.

You said that woman-on-man violence is worse than man-on-man violence because man-on-woman violence is worse. This shows a lack of understanding about the underdog theme. You did, after all, begin this discussion talking about Hollywood and the media.


For the rest of it:

The women's suffrage movement in the U.S. began in the 1840s; the nineteenth amendment was ratified in 1920. To say that women didn't fight for that, changing opinions and culture, is laughable.

It was not a gift bestowed upon women by benevolent men who'd just have done it anyway... eventually... maybe.

chump
Thought Provoker
United States 6awards
Joined 30th Sep 2014
Forum Posts: 417

A little about me just FYI...

Divorced. Your thinking no surprise.. But I wasn't like this when I was married..
Only after 2 drunk car accidents which injured my kids both times could I get a judge to give me my kids. I never cheated I never hit her she was on a pedistal.. Booze and drugs then I left her. She had to blow into a tube to start her car to go to court from a DUI ..she had no job ..and still got my boys.. I had a great job and room for them.. After that the two sets of rules thing kinda sunk in for me.. I saw horror for fathers in the courtroom. When the judge gave me the kids and her child support orders the people were shocked out loud.

I want equality but this is not.

I look forward to anything a woman can say to make me change my opinion of some of this. I don't enjoy it

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