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KDAmB
Tyrant of Words
Australia 13awards
Joined 5th Sep 2014
Forum Posts: 6358

well.. to me..an outsider.. it's for the Brits to decide their own fate.. who am I to say eitherway.. only observation would be it unleashed the closet xenophobes.. look  at the news. The Brits have their absolute right to decide their own fate for whatever reason they reason. Immigration, economy, unemployment whatever..absolutely fine but hatred for "others"/xenophobia is a slippery slope with targets shifting as you start knocking one group after another...history has taught us..let's pray it doesn't repeat itself.

Astyanax
Ceejay
Fire of Insight
United Kingdom 9awards
Joined 23rd Feb 2010
Forum Posts: 748

My vote to leave had nothing whatsoever to do with immigration, but was entirely based on my opposition to a political system in which laws are imposed on my country by an overpaid, pampered  élite based in another country whom the British people did not elect and whose names, in most cases, they don't even know. It is a system which no American would accept in a million years, and to characterize it as representing nothing more than a dislike of immigrants is an inaccurate and sneering reaction on the part of those who were on the losing side in the referendum

poet Anonymous

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Astyanax
Ceejay
Fire of Insight
United Kingdom 9awards
Joined 23rd Feb 2010
Forum Posts: 748

Right - to start with, the individual can vote for his or her MEP (Member of the European Parliament). Most people, of course, could not name the MEP for their area because they feel distanced from the process in a way that they do not feel in relation to their local Member of the British Parliament. Of course they can find the name on a list, but many of them feel they have better things to do with their time, such as getting on with their lives. Their MEP does not deal with local affairs or hold regular meetings with individual voters, as an MP does, because they are not here, they are spending their time in another country dealing with politicians from all over the rest of Europe. Also, MEPs do not make the laws, they are decided on by the members of the European Commission, whose members are not elected - they are appointed to their very powerful positions, with the voter having no say in the matter. Thus, the  process for creating the laws by which all the member-states of the EU are governed becomes ever more 'stretched out', so that the democratic link between the people and the laws they must obey becomes increasingly thin, to the point where, for many, it is non-existent. This has been termed by some respected politicians as the 'democratic deficit' of the EU. That's why I don't like the EU's system of legislation: it is too far removed from the people who have to obey the laws it makes.

lepperochan
Craic-Dealer
Guardian of Shadows
Palestine 67awards
Joined 1st Apr 2011
Forum Posts: 14449

at some point the stay campaign focused on EU laws:

"if it wernt for EU laws there'd be no maternal leave or other employment related benefits"

which is true

EU human rights laws also seemed to get the Cameron govt in a tizzy


I agree, the system is half democratic. to be fair to Europe in Ireland's case, we done pretty good outta it in terms of infastructure but lost out in terms of agri-quotas and fishing


Ireland followed UK into the EU because it needed to, chances are it may follow UK out of it too and i'd be ok with that  

re: superpowers and failed states. you're right, it'd be hard to find a superpower which no failures

failure is a word and I don't think the word failure does the suffering people justice.







Astyanax
Ceejay
Fire of Insight
United Kingdom 9awards
Joined 23rd Feb 2010
Forum Posts: 748

lepperochan said:: "if it wernt for EU laws there'd be no maternal leave or other employment related benefits"
which is true

This is absolutely not 'true' at all. It is precisely the sort of assertion that the government-backed 'Remain' campaign used to frighten people into voting the way they wanted them to. Many countries outside the EU have maternity leave and employment-related benefits and there is no reason to believe that the UK will not retain such laws now that it has voted to leave the EU. The main difference will be that our laws will now be made by us rather than a group of fat cats in Brussels whom nobody voted for.

lepperochan
Craic-Dealer
Guardian of Shadows
Palestine 67awards
Joined 1st Apr 2011
Forum Posts: 14449

yes, I understand that. but was maternity leave a law the EU fatcats laid down ?  if so, then the assertion would appear to be factual

I doubt the Brittish government would seek to bin the legislation,  but we have no way of knowing if Britain would have legislated the laws had it been free to decide

one indication may be if outspoken members of parliment were vehemently opposed to the EU directive at the time..

poet Anonymous

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Viddax
Lord Viddax
Guardian of Shadows
United Kingdom 31awards
Joined 10th Oct 2009
Forum Posts: 6672

I would have liked us to stay in the EU but renegotiate our status and how stuff works, as it seems a bit weird to be part of Europe yet not have the shared currency, ideologies, religion or even history. (Pound Sterling, sense of being, Church of England, backwater island of the Roman Empire and then global monster master during the age of empire.) Yet we are now out so it would be interesting to see what happens.
Hopefully it will be business as usual just with Britain being even more daft but functional by being part of European things (Euro football, Eurovision, European trading) yet slightly distanced at the same time.

Okay enough rambling about stuff I hardly know anything about.

It is my belief that if proven wrong or on the losing side, it is a sign of humility to admit your mistakes and a sign or resolve and loyalty to then stick to your guns especially if they are part of something larger: you then sacrifice your own ideas in order to properly serve, lead and be part of the future. Though it seems the politicians of today lack the conviction, humanity or intelligence to do such things and instead will scurry away to newer treasure troves to line their nest, rather than serve.

Why is Ireland separated thus? What I mean is why is the North part of the United Kingdom, but Ireland is not? Its like Ireland is another continent and is not acknowledged as an equal similar to Scotland or Wales, and instead ignored and passed over.

It seems the United Kingdom is more like the disunited kingdom. Throwing a tantrum to 'escape' the petty administration of Brussels, yet has not attempted to rectify its own administration or properly be in a position of power to leave. All rather weird and in the strange not understandable way, a lot like my posts.

lepperochan
Craic-Dealer
Guardian of Shadows
Palestine 67awards
Joined 1st Apr 2011
Forum Posts: 14449

Viddax said:

Why is Ireland separated thus? What I mean is why is the North part of the United Kingdom, but Ireland is not? Its like Ireland is another continent and is not acknowledged as an equal similar to Scotland or Wales, and instead ignored and passed over.


I think Ireland had a bit of a bee in its bonnet about some trivial things occuring in the name of the crown. usurped a number of times in different eras, then secured an almost  sovereignty a hundred years ago.


but hey, we forgive you. furthermore, if things get rough over there and you can get your hand on a dingy. row, row like a man possesed across the sea (Irish) and we will pluck you out and care for you, show you the way of the Druid and teach you to write poetry using the old Irish notch on wood alphabet

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham

Carpe_Noctem
Tyrant of Words
Spain 8awards
Joined 3rd Mar 2013
Forum Posts: 2915

The EU is a dictatorship plain and simple.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.infowars.com/brexit-insider-eu-plans-occupational-army-to-suppress-the-people/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwiYssX35-DNAhWDECwKHd5TAJgQFggLMAA&usg=AFQjCNEC7bn-DGobjJSB4BAeoo4f1Ipm7A

Look at the state of Europe, the Greeks have been roasted on a spit, the French are up in the streets, muslim migrants are raping women and small children every day (invited in unvented by the tens of thousands) yet that one gets covered up.
To me it is obvious what the EU is.. Good bye British nationalism, French , German ect.
If you are happy with all the poverty and austerity then the EU looks mighty utopian..

Seems funny though that if everyone is so happy, then why are other European nations( while they still claim that  title) wanting out.

poet Anonymous

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Carpe_Noctem
Tyrant of Words
Spain 8awards
Joined 3rd Mar 2013
Forum Posts: 2915

IronFears said:

This is pure imagination. "raping women and small children every day" Are you kidding? Serious.


http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/06/muslim-migrants-bad-day-raped-woman-botanical-garden/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwju-YOM8uDNAhXBNJoKHYHeACEQFggeMAc&usg=AFQjCNEfKxTxlDP0w8w9Kk57zKWCRlhyrg

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7557/germany-rape-migrants-crisis&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwju-YOM8uDNAhXBNJoKHYHeACEQFggbMAY&usg=AFQjCNFLmd72w77cSRszXqxLaBF3wqcHuw

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.christiantoday.com/article/european.women.welcome.muslim.migrants.into.their.homes.only.to.get.raped.in.return.for.their.hospitality/87600.htm&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwju-YOM8uDNAhXBNJoKHYHeACEQFggLMAA&usg=AFQjCNGI0CkKIlaXYUyuiUWbXrptgwvCwA

Perhaps not everyday.. But there are a lot of rape cases being covered up by the media, in fact the MM isn't even reporting on it, I wonder why.

Also I like the fact that you didn't address the fact that EU is creating its own army.
How about the Greeks voting for no more austerity, oh well sorry the unelected EU bureaucrats cant have that, so what did they give the Greeks, who democratically voted NO. That's right twice as much austerity.

If the EU is such a beacon of democracy how come if votes,polls what ever don't go their way they hold more referendums till they get the desired result. Case in point with the Brexit. Funny how napoleon signed the petition for another referendum, I think even 35000 north Koreans did as well.

KDAmB
Tyrant of Words
Australia 13awards
Joined 5th Sep 2014
Forum Posts: 6358

Carpe_Noctem said:The EU is a dictatorship plain and simple.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.infowars.com/brexit-insider-eu-plans-occupational-army-to-suppress-the-people/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwiYssX35-DNAhWDECwKHd5TAJgQFggLMAA&usg=AFQjCNEC7bn-DGobjJSB4BAeoo4f1Ipm7A

Look at the state of Europe, the Greeks have been roasted on a spit, the French are up in the streets, muslim migrants are raping women and small children every day (invited in unvented by the tens of thousands) yet that one gets covered up.
To me it is obvious what the EU is.. Good bye British nationalism, French , German ect.
If you are happy with all the poverty and austerity then the EU looks mighty utopian..

Seems funny though that if everyone is so happy, then why are other European nations( while they still claim that  title) wanting out.

I used to think carpe you would atleast be articulate enough to back up your claims, with those outrageous statements, you don't need muslim men in Europe to rape women and children, the clergies and the other misfits are doing the same except those abhorrent claims get highlighted by the blatantly nakedly biased media when the criminals are found to be of muslim faith or non-white. Why did so many muslims end up in France? weren't Algeria and other muslim countries part of colonial France until very recently? yours is the most bigoted statement I've heard/seen on this site so far.. please try to put things into perspective- letme give you an example.. muslims across the globe are as much victims of terrorism as any other, just in the last 4 days more than 400 victims of so called ISIS were slaughterd across continents, where was the outrage? where was the coloring of pitcures with those countries' flags.. isn't a human life a human life? or isit just when it comes to europeans life becomes more equal than others? how's that for a perspective?

lepperochan
Craic-Dealer
Guardian of Shadows
Palestine 67awards
Joined 1st Apr 2011
Forum Posts: 14449

whitch country has not been a dictatorship?

lots of countries haven't been a dictatorship. there are countries in Europe who've historically been more ..physical.

Spain, Portugal, France, Germany, Belgium, Italy, England for example have all to some degree conquered, killed, slaved, colonized and de-wealthed countries.

..or used a country as a big open air prison.  g'day mate, what you in for ?


the point is. EU is supposed to be different. a collective.



"And why this dictatorship in less than 50 years has grown so much?"

...didn't take the third Reich so long.  maybe things snowballed after the straight bannana directive.


"If it was a fail it would not exist at all."

if one more country pulls out it might just collapse in on itself.



"Nationalism is what causes divisions and wars, expecially is small countries."

Nationalism spreads a lot where there is strife,  poverty  and low employment.

Europe has seen a sharp rise in Nationalism. French National front, Austria, Hungry, The soldiers of Odin on the streets in ...one of the Odin Islands

this is why the ideology of Europe is failing. because there ARE deep divisions in nations, especially the small countries and a lot of the discontent is aimed at Europe.

it's not all Europe's fault as a collective entity. the monetary crashes had a lot to do with banking institutions being greedy and reckless

the EU did however (in the case of Ireland ) threaten ruination if our government didn't

a.  promise to repay European and US bond and stock holders who'd lost their money

( contrary to what Iceland done. ie jailed the crooked bankers and paid nobody )

b. agree to take on a loan from the ECB  ( European central bank)  EC ( European commision ) and IMF ( international monetry fund

so, if Europe was for the people by the people we would have stood together and told the banks to go fuck themselves instead of facilitating their madness with money taken from the most vunerable people

(benefits for disabled people, old people, medical cards for termally ill children and adults)

refugees and migration is a problem. doesn't matter what religeon or country. when you have an influx of millions of people two things happen, wages go down and crime goes way the fuck up

this crises was caused by a handful of countries. let them be responsible

also, for all the doomsday talk and headlines. the UK stock market has been doing better than French, German and US over the past five days




@Ironman

what is it about Europe you like so much ?

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