margaret thatcher
While I don't think ALL of Reagan's ideas wrong, the one that did, and still does irritate was his beginnings of the whole "terrorist" idea. Where Thatcher plays into this was her insistence on shoving her head up Reagan's ass, and following him around like a puppy dog.
Simply put, and I am well aware I will probably take some heat for this, the IRA were soldiers, and to diminish a soldier's belief in his right to fight for something is nothing more than trying to diminish his legitimate claim. We are still doing it with Al Qaeda, and the Taliban, and frankly it has not helped.
I remember my Da watching 9/11 on the t.v. stating quite matter of factly
" That is an act of war. We have just had war declared on us by soldiers fighting for a cause. "
You don't have to believe in the "cause". Hell! You don't even have to like it. What you do need to do though if you are going to make any lasting progress is respect it for what it is, a deeply entrenched heartfelt ... cause.
Reagan never seemed to get that, and neither did Thatcher.
Simply put, and I am well aware I will probably take some heat for this, the IRA were soldiers, and to diminish a soldier's belief in his right to fight for something is nothing more than trying to diminish his legitimate claim. We are still doing it with Al Qaeda, and the Taliban, and frankly it has not helped.
I remember my Da watching 9/11 on the t.v. stating quite matter of factly
" That is an act of war. We have just had war declared on us by soldiers fighting for a cause. "
You don't have to believe in the "cause". Hell! You don't even have to like it. What you do need to do though if you are going to make any lasting progress is respect it for what it is, a deeply entrenched heartfelt ... cause.
Reagan never seemed to get that, and neither did Thatcher.
Bragg sums up some good reasons why many people in this country will not look back on her 'reign' with rose coloured spectacles. I disagreed with her govt's policy on housing (ending rent controls, making councils sell their houses despite waiting lists, not allowing them to use the proceeds to build more for those who would be unable to afford to buy) - housing has become for most a rip-off industry as a result. It was during the late 80s the problem of local youngsters being priced out of homes in the community they were brought up began becoming a noticeable problem. We have many homeless and others who fear they may be homeless in the future. According to her wikipedia article, housing had the highest proportionate cut in govt spending during her 'reign'.
One of the few things I like about David Cameron is that he did not repeat her error (some may say stunt) of reciting the prayer of St Francis when he himself arrived at Downing Street. Her government did not deliver on what she 'prayed' for and she possibly gave a well-loved prayer (also sung as a hymn) a bad name.
The fact that she died staying at the Ritz Hotel and that she was carried out of the hotel in a silver casket is hardly likely to convince many this was a woman of the people.
Some of those old enough to have done time in the military or in war work in 1945 (I am not) may also question her appeal to patriotism when, unlike most able Britons born in 1925, she did no such service. (Contrast the Queen, a year younger, who was in the ATS - equivalent of US WAAC). She was in full-time higher education at Oxford University, while so many students interrupted or postponed their study to either volunteer or be drafted.
I do not denigrate her as a family woman - but I cannot be uncritical of her as a politician.
One of the few things I like about David Cameron is that he did not repeat her error (some may say stunt) of reciting the prayer of St Francis when he himself arrived at Downing Street. Her government did not deliver on what she 'prayed' for and she possibly gave a well-loved prayer (also sung as a hymn) a bad name.
The fact that she died staying at the Ritz Hotel and that she was carried out of the hotel in a silver casket is hardly likely to convince many this was a woman of the people.
Some of those old enough to have done time in the military or in war work in 1945 (I am not) may also question her appeal to patriotism when, unlike most able Britons born in 1925, she did no such service. (Contrast the Queen, a year younger, who was in the ATS - equivalent of US WAAC). She was in full-time higher education at Oxford University, while so many students interrupted or postponed their study to either volunteer or be drafted.
I do not denigrate her as a family woman - but I cannot be uncritical of her as a politician.
Mo57 said:good stuff Soloman....the housing thing is agreed nation wide...but also the industry she took and gave to the south bothers me...in Salford...Liverpool, Middlesbrough, Leeds etc etc etc...It's buy one get one free...it's the focus and the distribution of the nations prosperity that annoys but as ever all these are interlinked..cracking understanding on this thread of politics...
Which particular industries were 'taken' and given to London? London doesn't have any coalmines, nor does it build ships or mine iron ore. And are you under the impression that if Thatcher hadn't existed, the coalmines of the north would all still be open and profitable and filled with high-earning, prosperous miners, or that the shipyards would be providing a good living for their local populations? Harold Wilson in fact closed more coalmines than Margaret Thatcher did, and if Labour had remained in power the mines and the shipyards would have limped along, producing hugely expensive coal that was uncompetitive on the world markets and ships that cost twice as much to build as they did elsewhere, and being supported by vast public subsidies financed by the hard-pressed taxpayer. When Labour came into power in 1997, Margaret Thatcher had been out of power for 7 years and Labour were then in power for a further 13 years - surely enough time to undo her policies if they'd wanted to? She may have been an abrasive character (and I certainly didn't agree with all her policies), but the old heavy industries were as much victims of history as they were of any individual person. Just because everyone around you is shouting 'Everything was Thatcher's fault!' don't let easy sloganizing get in the ways of a clear view of the facts.
Which particular industries were 'taken' and given to London? London doesn't have any coalmines, nor does it build ships or mine iron ore. And are you under the impression that if Thatcher hadn't existed, the coalmines of the north would all still be open and profitable and filled with high-earning, prosperous miners, or that the shipyards would be providing a good living for their local populations? Harold Wilson in fact closed more coalmines than Margaret Thatcher did, and if Labour had remained in power the mines and the shipyards would have limped along, producing hugely expensive coal that was uncompetitive on the world markets and ships that cost twice as much to build as they did elsewhere, and being supported by vast public subsidies financed by the hard-pressed taxpayer. When Labour came into power in 1997, Margaret Thatcher had been out of power for 7 years and Labour were then in power for a further 13 years - surely enough time to undo her policies if they'd wanted to? She may have been an abrasive character (and I certainly didn't agree with all her policies), but the old heavy industries were as much victims of history as they were of any individual person. Just because everyone around you is shouting 'Everything was Thatcher's fault!' don't let easy sloganizing get in the ways of a clear view of the facts.
Mo57 said:Australia has a massive economy grown on coal export...why?
Because Australia has massive stocks of coal and produces it very cheaply. Our coal is expensive to produce because of such factors as wage-levels, difficulty of extracting it, etc. Successful exports depend on price. We can build ships, but they're more expensive than those produced in places like Japan and China. Obviously, countries buy goods where they're cheapest - that's nothing to do with Thatcher or any other politician. The same goes for other services such as trains, etc. We are a small country in decline, so many of the things we have got used to are no longer affordable. That's what I meant when I said that the miners were victims of history rather than any individual politician.
Mo57 said:service is limited prices go up..i wont guess or specular...but u will prob iphone these facts and think..good old Maggie
I don't 'iphone' facts, I read books and newspapers, and I certainly don't think 'good old Maggie'. I come from the north as well and I know how things are up there, but I don't think the solution is to keep endlessly whining and blaming everything on one person who was last in power 23 years ago. If you're young and talented and don't like it where you are, get off your arse and go somewhere else.
Because Australia has massive stocks of coal and produces it very cheaply. Our coal is expensive to produce because of such factors as wage-levels, difficulty of extracting it, etc. Successful exports depend on price. We can build ships, but they're more expensive than those produced in places like Japan and China. Obviously, countries buy goods where they're cheapest - that's nothing to do with Thatcher or any other politician. The same goes for other services such as trains, etc. We are a small country in decline, so many of the things we have got used to are no longer affordable. That's what I meant when I said that the miners were victims of history rather than any individual politician.
Mo57 said:service is limited prices go up..i wont guess or specular...but u will prob iphone these facts and think..good old Maggie
I don't 'iphone' facts, I read books and newspapers, and I certainly don't think 'good old Maggie'. I come from the north as well and I know how things are up there, but I don't think the solution is to keep endlessly whining and blaming everything on one person who was last in power 23 years ago. If you're young and talented and don't like it where you are, get off your arse and go somewhere else.
Anonymous
Brexit: fucking up the UK more than Thatcher did before breakfast.
