Do you think that people should be able to have a abortion?

84.78% • 39 votes • Yes, of course
15.22% • 7 votes • No, it should be against the law.
Total votes: 46
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Do you think that people should be able to have a abortion?

David_Macleod
David_Macleod
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Northern1 said:An unborn child is a living human, it is not an organ in the mother's body.  i am against abortion, except in cases where the mother's health is in real peril.

and babies the result of rape or incest?  WTF??

lepperochan
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its a touchy subject. person's opinion is just as valid as yours doncha think.


(edit: no tone intended)


Carpe_Noctem
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lepperochan said:its a touchy subject. person's opinion is just as valid as yours doncha think.




I concur and that is all I have to say about that

Northern1
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David_Macleod said:

and babies the result of rape or incest?  WTF??


The baby is not at fault for the circumstances of it's existence.
i have no wish to debate the issue, these are my views on the subject and you have yours, which i accept that you have a right to hold.  Lets leave it at that.  

David_Macleod
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my boiling blood pressure has returned to normal, well normal for me. It's true that people have a right to give his/her opinions. the KKK, black lives matter, the Nation of Islam, even Donald Trump. However if you express an opinion in a public forum on certain subjects then you should expect and be prepared to be challenged and called out on it - I mean if I put up and argument that abortions should be legal but only for white women, can you imagine the shit storm - Some opinions don't deserve respect, some opinions are heinous but allowance must be made to protect their human rights of freedom of expression only. It appears this is not a subject for debate I will take my leave I have said all I want to say

Pauciloquent
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I feel like the strangest part of America is 1. our "separation of church and state" but god is somehow still brought into law making all the time (example: Alabama's new abortion bill) and 2. our touting of freedoms while we actively work to undermine them. And the stupidest thing I ever heard is the idea that you can get an abortion up to and at the time of birth (no doctor will ever agree to one passed 21 weeks at the MOST extreme and only if it is an active risk to the mother, otherwise the cut of is well before then). It's beyond ridiculous and yet people spread it around like fact. Ignorance is not bliss, it is the signature on the death sentence of democracy.

drone
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There are ways
to have sex
and not have baby's
depending
on what hole you use
the pill the day after pill
are just a few
that can be used
to not have baby's
when you
who have no
medical problems
you
who are healthy
you
who could not be botherd
to use things
that would stop you
haveing a child
should you
have the right
to kill
a young life
becouse you could'nt
be botherd to use anything
if you don't want the child
bring the baby into this world
then give the baby away
is it not better
then murdering
a young soul
becouse you were lazy





Northern1
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On second thought, i better not

Ahavati
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Northern1 said:An unborn child is a living human, it is not an organ in the mother's body.  i am against abortion, except in cases where the mother's health is in real peril.

You wouldn't believe the numbers that don't even believe in that aspect, citing it's "God's will" if she dies.  Much the same scenario applies to rape and incest, i.e. - "The pregnancy was God's will", in essence, validating rape, which  subsequently condems the mother to full term despite her circumstance.

I have been torn on this since I became aware of the issue. It was something I never really considered until the Dr. told me if I didn't abort my second I would likely leave my first ( two years-old at the time ) motherless.  I don't know if it was mother's instinct, but I couldn't personally do it.  I only weighed 95 lbs the morning after I had her, and she barely weighed 5lbs, but she grew up healthy, and I returned to health.

I really came face-to-face with this in law school studying Roe v. Wade.  I think judgment in these cases becomes personal. You're right in that a baby is not an organ in the mother's body.  But, you're also right in that it's the mother's body.  And while the child isn't at fault for its existence, neither is the mother for her circumstance ( in cases of the mother's health and rape ).  Especially if she's a single without a support system.

Yes; there is adoption by good people who would die to have a child; however, alternative options are a separate can of worms.

I view and understand both sides sympathetically in cases of rape and health - and I thank the Universe I am not, nor will ever, be in that forced position to choose again: for me, or anyone else.

Hopefully.


Northern1
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Ahavati said:

You wouldn't believe the numbers that don't even believe in that aspect, citing it's "God's will" if she dies.  Much the same scenario applies to rape and incest, i.e. - "The pregnancy was God's will", in essence, validating rape, which  subsequently condems the mother to full term despite her circumstance.

I have been torn on this since I became aware of the issue. It was something I never really considered until the Dr. told me if I didn't abort my second I would likely leave my first ( two years-old at the time ) motherless.  I don't know if it was mother's instinct, but I couldn't personally do it.  I only weighed 95 lbs the morning after I had her, and she barely weighed 5lbs, but she grew up healthy, and I returned to health.

I really came face-to-face with this in law school studying Roe v. Wade.  I think judgment in these cases becomes personal. You're right in that a baby is not an organ in the mother's body.  But, you're also right in that it's the mother's body.  And while the child isn't at fault for its existence, neither is the mother for her circumstance ( in cases of the mother's health and rape ).  Especially if she's a single without a support system.

Yes; there is adoption by good people who would die to have a child; however, alternative options are a separate can of worms.

I view and understand both sides sympathetically in cases of rape and health - and I thank the Universe I am not, nor will ever, be in that forced position to choose again: for me, or anyone else.

Hopefully.



Thank you for your thoughtful reply.  You are right, it is the mother's body and i being born male cannot fully grasp the situation some would be mothers face.  Am happy for you that your child survived, it was a brave decision you made, but that is not to say that i am in a position to judge anyone on those matters.  

This topic is a can of worms, one i should have had sense enough to stay out of, but live and learn.

Ahavati
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Northern1 said:

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.  You are right, it is the mother's body and i being born male cannot fully grasp the situation some would be mothers face.  Am happy for you that your child survived, it was a brave decision you made, but that is not to say that i am in a position to judge anyone on those matters.  

This topic is a can of worms, one i should have had sense enough to stay out of, but live and learn.


I think experience is exactly HOW we live and learn. We can't keep our head in the sand, avoiding cans of worms our entire life.  Not if we're to learn how to engage with others of dissenting opinions. This is where the art of debate ( something very scarce in these parts ) vs strongarm tactics come in.

JohnnyBlaze
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Northern1 said:

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.  You are right, it is the mother's body and i being born male cannot fully grasp the situation some would be mothers face.  Am happy for you that your child survived, it was a brave decision you made, but that is not to say that i am in a position to judge anyone on those matters.  

This topic is a can of worms, one i should have had sense enough to stay out of, but live and learn.


Never be afraid to speak your mind. That's what forums are for.

Pauciloquent
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drone said:There are ways
to have sex
and not have baby's
depending
on what hole you use
the pill the day after pill
are just a few
that can be used
to not have baby's
when you
who have no
medical problems
you
who are healthy
you
who could not be botherd
to use things
that would stop you
haveing a child
should you
have the right
to kill
a young life
becouse you could'nt
be botherd to use anything
if you don't want the child
bring the baby into this world
then give the baby away
is it not better
then murdering
a young soul
becouse you were lazy

Well first, that's pretty misrepresenting. Most women get abortions because of a multitude of reasons such as incest, rape, health issues, can't raise the child, not a safe environment, fear of the foster care system, and societal scorn if they carry to term. Those that do it "because they couldn't be bothered" are by far the few and far between. And when you outlaw abortion it's going to be the "can't be bothered" who carry to term and then give it away or let it die in a dumpster while the many mentioned before will find back alley solutions and kill both themselves and the child.
And what about how birth control, morning after pills, and basic sex education become harder and harder to come by, more controlled and scorned, and sometimes even out right banned? People have sex, there's no denying that, so trying to control that by limiting sex education (Ex: 17 states still teach abstinence only), limiting and outright getting rid of places that will help women get free birth control and morning after pills (Ex: Wyoming and South Dakota no longer have any Planned Parenthood locations, and a lot of others are on that edge), and having a shit foster care system (Ex: nearly 1/3 of every foster child reports abuse from a foster parent), you leave people with little choice.
Since the dawn of time, controlling sex has been about controlling women. Abortion laws are just the same. When the Alabama Senator Chambliss was asked about why the Anti Abortion Bill didn't include protection to eggs fertilized through IVF, he stated "the egg in the lab does not apply. It's not in a woman, she is not pregnant". To control anyone is to oppress them, to oppress them is to deny them humanity. It almost seems like the only way to protect an unborn fetus is to label it a "person too" while removing the same label from the mother.
Having more restrictive laws seems like a good idea for protection, but really, it's not. Prohibition is the greatest example of that. To take away comprehensive knowledge and the availability of alternative solutions is asking for chaos.
I say all this but I hate the idea of abortions, I hate the idea of babies never getting to be born, I hate the idea of mothers having to go through that emotional pain and anguish associated with an abortion. But, at the same time, I believe in freedom and the right to choose, I believe in democracy and human good, and I know for a fact that if there were better alternatives and the socioeconomic situation was better for the vast majority, abortions might not even be necessary (besides rape and incest and threat to the mother's life). If people were in a better place to protect themselves, provide for the child, or at least know that the child wouldn't be abused and neglected in foster care, abortions might just cease to be an issue, there would be no need to talk about a mute point. But until then, I will stand by the right to choose, if only to uphold every human's inherent rights.

Erinalouisa
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I personally beleive it should be legal.  All these people who talk about how its murder , go adopt or foster all the chilldren in care and then come back and talk about it .I also feel like men shoukd not be making laws on womens bodies .


Ahavati
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Erinalouisa said:I personally beleive it should be legal. All these people who talk about how its murder , go adopt or foster all the chilldren in care and then come back and talk about it .I also feel like men shoukd not be making laws on womens bodies .



I am sure they would say that both birth control and sexual education need to be readily available to avoid many unplanned pregnancies.  Here in America everyone does give to the system to help via taxes.  

I am vehemently against murder; however, I cannot become a police officer out on the streets to fight it.  I detest arsonists; however, I cannot become a firefighter to counter them. I can only do what I can within the means I have to help further what I believe in, keeping in mind that those with differing beliefs adhere to them as strongly as I do mine.

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