WHO IS AMERICA?
lepperochan said:Hullo, and thanks
There's a list on Wikipedia, lists all the wars / conflicts US has been in. since the late 1700s
If you believe America is war then that list will certainly add weight to your beliefs.
I don't need a list - I'm well aware. Again, WHY is very important to know.
lepperochan said: in 1940 the IRA were more ot less obsolete. they weren't even that aggressive in terms of conflict. it was more a period of trying to improve community, culture etc
they only really re-emerged in the late 60s early 70s when brittish paratroopers opened fire on a civil rights march. and prodestant gangs and paramilitaries burned Catholics out of their homes.
then died out again until around 80' when the beautiful soul of Margret Thatcher fanned the flames
it was the Irish national (-free state-) army who were charged with defence. the actual army which had previously held the brittish to a truce was ripped apart during the civil war
the man who led that army, Michael Collins had been assassinated by (many believe) Eamonn Dev who had double crossed him in a most disgusting manner
I'm well aware of the history of the IRA. Which is why my original question was framed dated 1940 - because they were incapable of holding off a full-scale invasion. I'm not judging them for how they chose to survive - I can imagine what it's like attempting to maintain an identity between two major factions - not knowing which would win.
I try not to judge how any person or country chose to survive - my intent was to defend my country via comparison of the methods of survival - how they align and deviate. And that no one county is superior to the other because of the choices they made - or the actions of certain citizen's irrespective of the country as a whole.
There's a list on Wikipedia, lists all the wars / conflicts US has been in. since the late 1700s
If you believe America is war then that list will certainly add weight to your beliefs.
I don't need a list - I'm well aware. Again, WHY is very important to know.
lepperochan said: in 1940 the IRA were more ot less obsolete. they weren't even that aggressive in terms of conflict. it was more a period of trying to improve community, culture etc
they only really re-emerged in the late 60s early 70s when brittish paratroopers opened fire on a civil rights march. and prodestant gangs and paramilitaries burned Catholics out of their homes.
then died out again until around 80' when the beautiful soul of Margret Thatcher fanned the flames
it was the Irish national (-free state-) army who were charged with defence. the actual army which had previously held the brittish to a truce was ripped apart during the civil war
the man who led that army, Michael Collins had been assassinated by (many believe) Eamonn Dev who had double crossed him in a most disgusting manner
I'm well aware of the history of the IRA. Which is why my original question was framed dated 1940 - because they were incapable of holding off a full-scale invasion. I'm not judging them for how they chose to survive - I can imagine what it's like attempting to maintain an identity between two major factions - not knowing which would win.
I try not to judge how any person or country chose to survive - my intent was to defend my country via comparison of the methods of survival - how they align and deviate. And that no one county is superior to the other because of the choices they made - or the actions of certain citizen's irrespective of the country as a whole.
lepperochan said:didn't mean no offence, Miss Sub. as you know, I'm very fond of your peeps 😊
Actually, wasn't it Ireland withholding the export of Guinness that brought the British around to supplying decent wheat ( and other commodities ) to make bread during a famine?
[Edit] Yep! Thought I remembered that correctly.
https://irishamerica.com/2014/03/guinness-saved-ireland/
Actually, wasn't it Ireland withholding the export of Guinness that brought the British around to supplying decent wheat ( and other commodities ) to make bread during a famine?
[Edit] Yep! Thought I remembered that correctly.
https://irishamerica.com/2014/03/guinness-saved-ireland/
Just to chime in on the sub-topic of humour, the British/English style of humour tends to have more nuance. Things such as sarcasm and references to class without it being absolutely offensive: more about playing with identity than belittling it. Though that is not always the case. The thing is that American humour does not quite seem to have the knack of laughing at itself, of belittling itself, without it devolving into offensive slurs - however that flaw in humour is a great strength in other matters: the can-do attitude and pride.
Probably some of the best examples of American humour are the films 'Airplane', 'Spaceballs', 'Blazing Saddles', 'The Naked Gun' trilogy, and the much underrated 'Police Squad'. Oldies but goldies which disprove my previous words as in 'Blazing Saddles' the sheriff is Black but the humour and comedy is never about belittling the sheriff for being Black, but a Black slave who is made sheriff and triumphs through wit and guile and skill and a lot of meta-film shenanigans.
A line from 'Police Squad' that can easily go toe to toe with any Monty Python quote on grounds of genius and joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRva7z8pvwc
Also, 'Whose Line Is It Anyway' is a favourite show of mine. An American improvisational show that started as a British radio show then one on British television: but whereas the British tv version is dated and funny in places the USA version is a well oiled laughter factory: the amount of clips and subsequent views on youtube should be enough to attest to that.
Probably some of the best examples of American humour are the films 'Airplane', 'Spaceballs', 'Blazing Saddles', 'The Naked Gun' trilogy, and the much underrated 'Police Squad'. Oldies but goldies which disprove my previous words as in 'Blazing Saddles' the sheriff is Black but the humour and comedy is never about belittling the sheriff for being Black, but a Black slave who is made sheriff and triumphs through wit and guile and skill and a lot of meta-film shenanigans.
A line from 'Police Squad' that can easily go toe to toe with any Monty Python quote on grounds of genius and joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRva7z8pvwc
Also, 'Whose Line Is It Anyway' is a favourite show of mine. An American improvisational show that started as a British radio show then one on British television: but whereas the British tv version is dated and funny in places the USA version is a well oiled laughter factory: the amount of clips and subsequent views on youtube should be enough to attest to that.
Viddax said:Just to chime in on the sub-topic of humour, the British/English style of humour tends to have more nuance. Things such as sarcasm and references to class without it being absolutely offensive: more about playing with identity than belittling it. Though that is not always the case.
Exactly; and I can tell the difference.
Viddax said:The thing is that American humour does not quite seem to have the knack of laughing at itself, of belittling itself, without it devolving into offensive slurs - however that flaw in humour is a great strength in other matters: the can-do attitude and pride.
Exactly.
Viddax said:Probably some of the best examples of American humour are the films 'Airplane', 'Spaceballs', 'Blazing Saddles', 'The Naked Gun' trilogy, and the much underrated 'Police Squad'. Oldies but goldies which disprove my previous words as in 'Blazing Saddles' the sheriff is Black but the humour and comedy is never about belittling the sheriff for being Black, but a Black slave who is made sheriff and triumphs through wit and guile and skill and a lot of meta-film shenanigans.
A line from 'Police Squad' that can easily go toe to toe with any Monty Python quote on grounds of genius and joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRva7z8pvwc
Also, 'Whose Line Is It Anyway' is a favourite show of mine. An American improvisational show that started as a British radio show then one on British television: but whereas the British tv version is dated and funny in places the USA version is a well oiled laughter factory: the amount of clips and subsequent views on youtube should be enough to attest to that.
We have some of the best stand ups and films; it's just different. So does England though!
One of my favorite English shows was the Benny Hill show! We watched that here in America over whatever else was on! ROFL! Another is The Office ( though the American version is funny too ).
Anyone wanting to understand the nuances between the countries humour could actually watch their comedies. It's a lot cheaper than moving!
Exactly; and I can tell the difference.
Viddax said:The thing is that American humour does not quite seem to have the knack of laughing at itself, of belittling itself, without it devolving into offensive slurs - however that flaw in humour is a great strength in other matters: the can-do attitude and pride.
Exactly.
Viddax said:Probably some of the best examples of American humour are the films 'Airplane', 'Spaceballs', 'Blazing Saddles', 'The Naked Gun' trilogy, and the much underrated 'Police Squad'. Oldies but goldies which disprove my previous words as in 'Blazing Saddles' the sheriff is Black but the humour and comedy is never about belittling the sheriff for being Black, but a Black slave who is made sheriff and triumphs through wit and guile and skill and a lot of meta-film shenanigans.
A line from 'Police Squad' that can easily go toe to toe with any Monty Python quote on grounds of genius and joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRva7z8pvwc
Also, 'Whose Line Is It Anyway' is a favourite show of mine. An American improvisational show that started as a British radio show then one on British television: but whereas the British tv version is dated and funny in places the USA version is a well oiled laughter factory: the amount of clips and subsequent views on youtube should be enough to attest to that.
We have some of the best stand ups and films; it's just different. So does England though!
One of my favorite English shows was the Benny Hill show! We watched that here in America over whatever else was on! ROFL! Another is The Office ( though the American version is funny too ).
Anyone wanting to understand the nuances between the countries humour could actually watch their comedies. It's a lot cheaper than moving!
Anonymous
Viddax said:Just to chime in on the sub-topic of humour, the British/English style of humour tends to have more nuance. Things such as sarcasm and references to class without it being absolutely offensive: more about playing with identity than belittling it. Though that is not always the case. The thing is that American humour does not quite seem to have the knack of laughing at itself, of belittling itself, without it devolving into offensive slurs
Exactly the point I was making. Thank you. 👍🏻
Exactly the point I was making. Thank you. 👍🏻
Ahavati said:
Actually, wasn't it Ireland withholding the export of Guinness that brought the British around to supplying decent wheat ( and other commodities ) to make bread during a famine?
[Edit] Yep! Thought I remembered that correctly.
https://irishamerica.com/2014/03/guinness-saved-ireland/
it's this kind of post which presents a challenge to "I could have taught history"
Guinness was a very Brittish company until sold to d'dagio some years back. it sacked and informed on its workers who took part in the revolution. the IRA called for a boycott of Guiness but it never really took off
the famine you speak of was 100 years earlier. the potato crop failed -which shouldn't have been too much of a problem since the country had much more food sources- cows, chickens etc and very fertile land
the problem was -all-the other food-was being shipped across to England as payment for the land
between the 17 and 1800's because of wilful genocide, slave driving, and mass evacuation Ireland lost two thirds of its population.
in 1940 the Irish defence forces had whatever other countries had given them. which wasn't much
but to suggest Ireland wouldn't exist without the US is a gross misunderstanding
Ireland had existed for millenia before the united states was born. it has been invaded and occupied, but never lost it's identity or its existence
the UK had also existed for millenia, had been invaded, occupied and eventually repelled all the while keeping it's existence and identity
things would have been different sure. but none if us owes our lives or existence to the US
on the other hand the US owes its existence to many nations.
Actually, wasn't it Ireland withholding the export of Guinness that brought the British around to supplying decent wheat ( and other commodities ) to make bread during a famine?
[Edit] Yep! Thought I remembered that correctly.
https://irishamerica.com/2014/03/guinness-saved-ireland/
it's this kind of post which presents a challenge to "I could have taught history"
Guinness was a very Brittish company until sold to d'dagio some years back. it sacked and informed on its workers who took part in the revolution. the IRA called for a boycott of Guiness but it never really took off
the famine you speak of was 100 years earlier. the potato crop failed -which shouldn't have been too much of a problem since the country had much more food sources- cows, chickens etc and very fertile land
the problem was -all-the other food-was being shipped across to England as payment for the land
between the 17 and 1800's because of wilful genocide, slave driving, and mass evacuation Ireland lost two thirds of its population.
in 1940 the Irish defence forces had whatever other countries had given them. which wasn't much
but to suggest Ireland wouldn't exist without the US is a gross misunderstanding
Ireland had existed for millenia before the united states was born. it has been invaded and occupied, but never lost it's identity or its existence
the UK had also existed for millenia, had been invaded, occupied and eventually repelled all the while keeping it's existence and identity
things would have been different sure. but none if us owes our lives or existence to the US
on the other hand the US owes its existence to many nations.
Two words regarding both politics and American humor at the same time :
Bill Maher
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Maher
Bill Maher
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Maher
LOL! This is so like you, Lepp. You practically ignore the previous posts and you jump all over this "humorous" post!
lepperochan said:
it's this kind of post which presents a challenge to "I could have taught history"
Firstly, I never said "I could have taught history". I said I loved it so almost considered teaching it, which meant I would've had to have obtained a teaching degree. I chose a different path instead.
lepperochan said:Guinness was a very Brittish company until sold to d'dagio some years back. it sacked and informed on its workers who took part in the revolution. the IRA called for a boycott of Guiness but it never really took off
the famine you speak of was 100 years earlier. the potato crop failed -which shouldn't have been too much of a problem since the country had much more food sources- cows, chickens etc and very fertile land
the problem was -all-the other food-was being shipped across to England as payment for the land
between the 17 and 1800's because of wilful genocide, slave driving, and mass evacuation Ireland lost two thirds of its population.
Secondly, my post was a freaking joke - thus the "wink" - you know --> ( btw, when an American winks when telling something it's typically a joke - just saying ).
I could've said alcohol and looked up my history books - but chose to do a quick google search instead and saw the title! I thought it was funny ( the situation not the famine )!
I'm sorry - who doesn't understand humor?! LOL!
lepperochan said:in 1940 the Irish defence forces had whatever other countries had given them. which wasn't much
Exactly it wasn't much - roughly 80 or so machine guns and some port defences. As I originally stated.
lepperochan said:but to suggest Ireland wouldn't exist without the US is a gross misunderstanding
Ireland had existed for millenia before the united states was born. it has been invaded and occupied, but never lost it's identity or its existence
the UK had also existed for millenia, had been invaded, occupied and eventually repelled all the while keeping it's existence and identity
things would have been different sure. but none if us owes our lives or existence to the US
on the other hand the US owes its existence to many nations.
I'm not suggesting it; I'm stating it. We ALL owe our existence to each other because we all ( well, most of us ) fought together to overcome evil. And that's a fact whether you like it or not.
lepperochan said:
it's this kind of post which presents a challenge to "I could have taught history"
Firstly, I never said "I could have taught history". I said I loved it so almost considered teaching it, which meant I would've had to have obtained a teaching degree. I chose a different path instead.
lepperochan said:Guinness was a very Brittish company until sold to d'dagio some years back. it sacked and informed on its workers who took part in the revolution. the IRA called for a boycott of Guiness but it never really took off
the famine you speak of was 100 years earlier. the potato crop failed -which shouldn't have been too much of a problem since the country had much more food sources- cows, chickens etc and very fertile land
the problem was -all-the other food-was being shipped across to England as payment for the land
between the 17 and 1800's because of wilful genocide, slave driving, and mass evacuation Ireland lost two thirds of its population.
Secondly, my post was a freaking joke - thus the "wink" - you know -->
( btw, when an American winks when telling something it's typically a joke - just saying ). I could've said alcohol and looked up my history books - but chose to do a quick google search instead and saw the title! I thought it was funny ( the situation not the famine )!
I'm sorry - who doesn't understand humor?! LOL!
lepperochan said:in 1940 the Irish defence forces had whatever other countries had given them. which wasn't much
Exactly it wasn't much - roughly 80 or so machine guns and some port defences. As I originally stated.
lepperochan said:but to suggest Ireland wouldn't exist without the US is a gross misunderstanding
Ireland had existed for millenia before the united states was born. it has been invaded and occupied, but never lost it's identity or its existence
the UK had also existed for millenia, had been invaded, occupied and eventually repelled all the while keeping it's existence and identity
things would have been different sure. but none if us owes our lives or existence to the US
on the other hand the US owes its existence to many nations.
I'm not suggesting it; I'm stating it. We ALL owe our existence to each other because we all ( well, most of us ) fought together to overcome evil. And that's a fact whether you like it or not.
apologies, I should have seen it was a joke. didn't realize
I think it was more the government who colluded with the Vatican through the church:
head of state was a staunch catholic, gave the church free reign. it was under his watch and encouragement the Magdaline laundries and other such wonders for Irish women who fell out of god's favour.
there were connections in Germany too from way back though we did imprison any who landed during WW2 a lot of them stayed after the war, got married and stuff
i don't have a problem with American people. most charitable is a good accolade. fair play. terms of Culture America is rich in it. jazz movement, blues, soul, mowtown rock n roll. hip hop, breakdance. poets. people who have influenced the world in a positive way like Dr King, Elvis, Macho man Randy Savage, Jim Morrison, John Wayne. the list is endless
sometimes, the people are the country works out. Hawaii for instance with their welcome dance and tiny guitar-type things
other times the government can overpower the people. their actions/ affairs dominate everything. the country becomes the government
when that happens it's hard to separate government from the people, especially if the government is democratically elected
edit :
"we all owe our existence to each other whether you like it or not"
isn't that what I have been saying for three pages now. "a collective effort"
impression I got from some of your posts and especially the other fellow was the US single handedly saved humanity from the third reich and WW1
I don't really want to go searching through 200 wars and conflicts either. it's enviable you don't need a list.
all the wars since 2001 appear greed driven. they don't seem to have instilled any kind of democracy or security. quite the opposite really.
I thank you for what you've had to say. and for what time you've put in to saying it. this is my stop
I think it was more the government who colluded with the Vatican through the church:
head of state was a staunch catholic, gave the church free reign. it was under his watch and encouragement the Magdaline laundries and other such wonders for Irish women who fell out of god's favour.
there were connections in Germany too from way back though we did imprison any who landed during WW2 a lot of them stayed after the war, got married and stuff
i don't have a problem with American people. most charitable is a good accolade. fair play. terms of Culture America is rich in it. jazz movement, blues, soul, mowtown rock n roll. hip hop, breakdance. poets. people who have influenced the world in a positive way like Dr King, Elvis, Macho man Randy Savage, Jim Morrison, John Wayne. the list is endless
sometimes, the people are the country works out. Hawaii for instance with their welcome dance and tiny guitar-type things
other times the government can overpower the people. their actions/ affairs dominate everything. the country becomes the government
when that happens it's hard to separate government from the people, especially if the government is democratically elected
edit :
"we all owe our existence to each other whether you like it or not"
isn't that what I have been saying for three pages now. "a collective effort"
impression I got from some of your posts and especially the other fellow was the US single handedly saved humanity from the third reich and WW1
I don't really want to go searching through 200 wars and conflicts either. it's enviable you don't need a list.
all the wars since 2001 appear greed driven. they don't seem to have instilled any kind of democracy or security. quite the opposite really.
I thank you for what you've had to say. and for what time you've put in to saying it. this is my stop
Kindred Spirits is a large stainless steel outdoor sculpture in Bailick Park in Midleton, County Cork, Ireland.
Kindred Spirits commemorates the 1847 donation by the Native American Choctaw People to Irish famine relief during the Great Hunger, despite the Choctaw themselves living in hardship and poverty and having recently endured the Trail of Tears. While records of the exact amount of the donation vary, the figure usually given is US$170 (about $4,500 in 2017 dollars, though some methods indicate it could have been as high as $20,000 in 2015 dollars.)
THAT is who America is.
lepperochan said:
all the wars since 2001 appear greed driven. they don't seem to have instilled any kind of democracy or security. quite the opposite really.
One out of the numerous U.S. military conflicts since 2001 meant to combat terrorism was initiated under false pretenses concocted by the Bush administration. It was the Invasion of Iraq supposedly in response to 911. All the excuses fed to Congress and the American people that Saddam was harboring members of Al Queda were bullshit.
The greed you speak of was on behalf of men in Bush's administration who very much ran the show. Men like Donald Rumsfeld who was responsible for letting Saddam become a bloody dictator in Iraq in the first place. Men who also were responsible for Bin Laden rising to power in the first place. Men who were looking for any excuse to insert their operations in the Middle East and personally profit.
The Bush administration racked up a huge deficit, while donestic issues were ignored to such a great extent that the economy tanked into the recession that the Obama administration spent at least one 4 year term digging the U.S. out of.
The current Trump administration is just a carnival freakshow undoing the progress the Obama administation made in restoring U.S. relations with the rest of the globe, while taking credit for the revived economy.
all the wars since 2001 appear greed driven. they don't seem to have instilled any kind of democracy or security. quite the opposite really.
One out of the numerous U.S. military conflicts since 2001 meant to combat terrorism was initiated under false pretenses concocted by the Bush administration. It was the Invasion of Iraq supposedly in response to 911. All the excuses fed to Congress and the American people that Saddam was harboring members of Al Queda were bullshit.
The greed you speak of was on behalf of men in Bush's administration who very much ran the show. Men like Donald Rumsfeld who was responsible for letting Saddam become a bloody dictator in Iraq in the first place. Men who also were responsible for Bin Laden rising to power in the first place. Men who were looking for any excuse to insert their operations in the Middle East and personally profit.
The Bush administration racked up a huge deficit, while donestic issues were ignored to such a great extent that the economy tanked into the recession that the Obama administration spent at least one 4 year term digging the U.S. out of.
The current Trump administration is just a carnival freakshow undoing the progress the Obama administation made in restoring U.S. relations with the rest of the globe, while taking credit for the revived economy.
