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1) Reporting posts, and 2) Bully mentality

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Ahavati
Tyrant of Words
United States
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1)  A critique posted on my latest poem was reported and  subsequently removed.  For the record,  I am not interested in who reported or removed it.  I had it restored by the Webmiss because I saw no violation of guidelines regarding its content.

Unless a response is derogatory, inflammatory, or an outright personal attack, should the thread starter be allowed to choose what gets reported?  

2) I have received several private messages regarding a certain member that disturbs me.  First, the member has violated no guidelines.  Secondly, personal feelings, vendettas, and mob mentality affect the site's healthy growth and member retention.  We've lost several good members because of this type of behavior.

Instead of forming a posse to chase them from town,  why not see how it plays out?  See what you're supposed to learn from the situation - how you might grow.  

Accept that you can't get along with everyone; don't take it personally and get some space before speaking your truth in a non-defensive way.  The best teachers in life are those you don't click with.   And you'll keep meeting them and meeting them and meeting them until you learn to overcome.

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JohnnyBlaze
Dangerous Mind
United States
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Ahavati said:1)  A critique posted on my latest poem was reported and  subsequently removed.  For the record,  I am not interested in who reported or removed it.  I had it restored by the Webmiss because I saw no violation of guidelines regarding its content.

Unless a response is derogatory, inflammatory, or an outright personal attack, should the thread starter be allowed to choose what gets reported?
 

Having a poem critiqued isn't a bad thing, Folks.

One marks their poems desirous of "Honest Critique" in hopes of receiving such, in order to better the self as a writer.

And why in god's name anybody would report a critique as abusive made to a poem belonging to a Director of The Honestly Crafted Critique Group ( shameless plug ) is beyond absurd.

https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/groups/honestly-crafted-critique/discussion/

That's like saying Ahavati doesn't comprehend the difference between a genuine critique and a trolling hate filled commentary.

A little common sense goes a long way.

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Ahavati
Tyrant of Words
United States
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JohnnyBlaze said:  

Having a poem critiqued isn't a bad thing, Folks.

One marks their poems desirous of "Honest Critique" in hopes of receiving such, in order to better the self as a writer.

And why in god's name anybody would report a critique as abusive made to a poem belonging to a Director of The Honestly Crafted Critique Group ( shameless plug ) is beyond absurd.

https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/groups/honestly-crafted-critique/discussion/

That's like saying Ahavati doesn't comprehend the difference between a genuine critique and a trolling hate filled commentary.

A little common sense goes a long way.


Even a troll has to violate guidelines first.

Great plug!

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todski28
Fire of Insight
Australia
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Ahavati said:1)  A critique posted on my latest poem was reported and  subsequently removed.  For the record,  I am not interested in who reported or removed it.  I had it restored by the Webmiss because I saw no violation of guidelines regarding its content.

Unless a response is derogatory, inflammatory, or an outright personal attack, should the thread starter be allowed to choose what gets reported?  

2) I have received several private messages regarding a certain member that disturbs me.  First, the member has violated no guidelines.  Secondly, personal feelings, vendettas, and mob mentality affect the site's healthy growth and member retention.  We've lost several good members because of this type of behavior.

Instead of forming a posse to chase them from town,  why not see how it plays out?  See what you're supposed to learn from the situation - how you might grow.  

Accept that you can't get along with everyone; don't take it personally and get some space before speaking your truth in a non-defensive way.  The best teachers in life are those you don't click with.   And you'll keep meeting them and meeting them and meeting them until you learn to overcome.


I had an account here simply for critique and only on those that specifically asked for honest critique, it lasted two weeks before my inbox was filled with hate mail and shit was being slung left right and centre so I abandoned all hope that honesty was what people were truly asking for. Very few people understand what is meant by the term "honest"
You are asking for an opinion on the writing, the context, the interpreted context and what another readers sees , thinks and feels inviting it and if they have the good grace to offer it then I do my best to learn from it in two ways

It helps me to see holes in my writing especially if there are unintended interpretations

Or

It forces me to think about my own writing and fortify why I have written what I have written and in the way I have expressed it.

I dont see it as something to be overcome in a sense of having to "win" per'se but more food for thought, it helps the writer understand someone elses perspective even if we dont agree/vehemently disagree with the critiquers opinion.

Too much sensorship pulls a place down, a lack of honesty doesnt promote growth. The balance of both and the breaking of echo chambers is what promotes diversity of ideas and opinions that help all involved grow.

Attacking truly honest critiquers and those that think differently to the way we do weakens your society as a whole

I appreciate that you had the fortitude to

1) stand by your writing, showing a strength of conviction in what you have to say, honesty and integrity intact

2) you respected the commenters opinion even if it was invalid/wrong to you and others.

Once again proving you uphold strong values and you have and always will have my respect and admiration.

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JohnnyBlaze
Dangerous Mind
United States
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Ahavati said:

Even a troll has to violate guidelines first.

Great plug!


I'm always thinking!

Ahavati said:2) I have received several private messages regarding a certain member that disturbs me.  First, the member has violated no guidelines.  Secondly, personal feelings, vendettas, and mob mentality affect the site's healthy growth and member retention.  We've lost several good members because of this type of behavior.

Instead of forming a posse to chase them from town,  why not see how it plays out?  See what you're supposed to learn from the situation - how you might grow.  

Accept that you can't get along with everyone; don't take it personally and get some space before speaking your truth in a non-defensive way.  The best teachers in life are those you don't click with.   And you'll keep meeting them and meeting them and meeting them until you learn to overcome.


I would like to suggest to anyone reading that if people you aren't familiar with are privately messaging you with biased comments towards other people you aren't familiar with, there is the possibility you are being "recruited" into an alliance of sorts.

If such behavior continues ( multiple messages ), you may want to consider sending copies of these "attempts to recruit you into an alliance" to the Webmiss and Moderators so she/they can properly deal with the "recruiter".






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Ahavati
Tyrant of Words
United States
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JohnnyBlaze said:

I would like to suggest to anyone reading that if people you aren't familiar with are privately messaging you with biased comments towards other people you aren't familiar with, there is the possibility you are being "recruited" into an alliance of sorts.

If such behavior continues ( multiple messages ), you may want to consider sending copies of these "attempts to recruit you into an alliance" to the Webmiss and Moderators so she/they can properly deal with the "recruiter".


W O R D.

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Ahavati
Tyrant of Words
United States
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todski28 said:

I had an account here simply for critique and only on those that specifically asked for honest critique, it lasted two weeks before my inbox was filled with hate mail and shit was being slung left right and centre so I abandoned all hope that honesty was what people were truly asking for.


Wow.  That's sad.

Very few people understand what is meant by the term "honest"
You are asking for an opinion on the writing, the context, the interpreted context and what another readers sees , thinks and feels inviting it and if they have the good grace to offer it then I do my best to learn from it in two ways

It helps me to see holes in my writing especially if there are unintended interpretations

Or

It forces me to think about my own writing and fortify why I have written what I have written and in the way I have expressed it.


Many want their version of the 'truth', something that agrees with them.  They post what they believe to be a great poem, and take it personally when someone is honest from their own personal perspective.  

One should always detach themselves from the poem emotionally prior to requesting honest critique.  Chances are the reader isn't going to feel that depth of emotional connection to it. Not saying they won't feel emotion, just saying it probably won't be at the depth the poet relates to it.

Critique not only assists a writer, but the critiquer as well.  We learn through teaching; we teach through learning.

I dont see it as something to be overcome in a sense of having to "win" per'se but more food for thought, it helps the writer understand someone elses perspective even if we dont agree/vehemently disagree with the critiquers opinion.

A seasoned writer is one who desires to improve, and knows there is always room for improvement.  Many young ( not necessarily in age ) writers are still in the ego phase of their experience.

Too much sensorship pulls a place down, a lack of honesty doesnt promote growth. The balance of both and the breaking of echo chambers is what promotes diversity of ideas and opinions that help all involved grow.

Exactly.  While this is a community of writers, the goal should be to improve the craft via honest means available.  

Attacking truly honest critiquers and those that think differently to the way we do weakens your society as a whole

Yes; it does. And we've lost good ones because of it too.

I appreciate that you had the fortitude to

1) stand by your writing, showing a strength of conviction in what you have to say, honesty and integrity intact

2) you respected the commenters opinion even if it was invalid/wrong to you and others.

Once again proving you uphold strong values and you have and always will have my respect and admiration.


I'm unsure I deserve all that; however, I thank you for saying such.

poet
Blackwolf
I.M.Blackwolf
Fire of Insight
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I believe I know who you are speaking of , regarding their critique...

And though I , personally did not like their style , it was your poem ,

and your thread , and I would most certainly not tread in your lair

or territory , to report another , as not only did I respect the way

you were able to deal with them , in an extremely intelligent , and

most positive way ( in a way I would not have been able to ) , it

would not have been my place to do so...

I agree , personal thread , personal decision...

However standing up for another , or speaking

in pm's is sometimes necessary to inform others

of what is going on , or has before , behind the scenes ;


This strengthens the site , not weakens it...

There are *many* factors to be considered in these

equations and possible situatiios , and just because

a few may feel it is wrong to communicate the way a

member acts , or has acted behind the scenes , does

not make those members right...;)

However , caution must be applied appropriately , which

is ultimately an individual decision ;

Best to you , Ahavati...

Fairness is a wonderful policy , though hard at times to follow ,

let alone applied with grace and intelligence !


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Viddax
Lord Viddax
Guardian of Shadows
United Kingdom
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Ahavati your opening lines and comments might need some clarity for me. Not context, but detail. The reply below may be a bit vague.


1) When reporting a response or comment there is no strict hierarchy: it is equal regardless of skill/race/style etc. However, there has to be a reason for the report; not just a sense of disagreement - as that is just a case of wasting time.
I do not think that a thread starter should have any power or ability to be able to veto a report, as not even moderators have the ability to completely eliminate a report from existence.
Critique that is misleading or misconstrued should not warrant a report, but deserves clarification on both sides: the poster and the reader so that everyone is on the same page and any lack of communication is fixed. Even if that fix means that the outcome is that neither side agrees with the other; the right is not always a singular thing.


2) I do not like or agree with any member disturbing any other member. I barely tolerate it in poems out of respect for freedom of speech and the art form, yet my personal dislike for the disturbing is secondary to the health/status of the website.

To err is human; we all have our quirks and stance on this site so trolling and witch-hunting is not beyond even the best of us (wherever those few may be hiding for now). To forgive is divine; but to sit idle or simply passive and observant while something wrong/disruptive/counter-productive happens is no way to be. There are some mountains that simply cannot be climbed as ourselves, and some people who simply want to watch the world burn. As noble and spiritually pure it would be to simply accept everything, progress balance and goodness sometimes demands action.



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Ahavati
Tyrant of Words
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Simply put, someone reported a critique on my latest poem based on their personal feelings toward the critiquer vs an actual guideline violation.  The critiquer didn't become personal and was within the guidelines with his critique.  Thus I reported the report as one based on personal feelings vs a guideline violation.  

Webmiss restored it because it violated no guidelines.

Several other members messaged me regarding the content of the critique and character of the critiquer.  Those messages disturbed me because the critique violated no guidelines.  They were based on personal feelings of dislike.  

Personal feelings have no place in a report if it doesn't violate the guidelines. Surely you can agree with that, and further agree that such a post should be restored under the auspice that no guidelines were violated.

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Blackwolf
I.M.Blackwolf
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MMMM...No !

Personal feelings are personal...

They can never be expected to be pigeonholed ,

separated , or excluded from any human action ,

as that is creating an automaton ;

Surely one who has properly studied psychology ,

realizes and can not ignore that , Ahavati...

( no disrespect , intended , or meant )

They must be dealt with in any equation , as

equal to cold rational thought...both factor into any report ;

However , it is the recipient administators call from there ,

right or wrong in the larger picture , yet determined by their

hierarchy , within a enforcer , or possible creator of site law ,

point of view , and their actions , and predecessorary decisions ,

become the Law of the Land , so to speak...

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Umm
Fire of Insight
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I agree with Viddax on the first point, but would like to point out that bringing up the second issue could be construed as counterproductive. If you're getting pm's about a person who disturbs you, the first thing to do to avoid drama shouldn't be bringing the matter into the public sphere.

but that's just my opinion

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RevolutionAL
Alistair Plint
Dangerous Mind
South Africa
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The way I see it:

It's Avaharti's poem on Avahari's profile.
If she doesn't like a comment on her page, she is capable enough to click "report".

Don't feel she needs help with that.

Neither do I.

(I think it's a insult, of the highest order to assume a person capable of writing poetry. Is incapable to decide if a comment on their poem is acceptable or not.)


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Umm
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RevolutionAL, I think you meant to say Ahavati, not Avaharti

but I agree with everything else

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RevolutionAL
Alistair Plint
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Umm said:RevolutionAL, I think you meant to say Ahavati, not Avaharti

but I agree with everything else




I think she's just had it, with me and my inability to type her name.

I'm useless at it.

So lets agree I was referring to "Varti"


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