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PORN...Addiction to the filth...

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Juvenalis66
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Blackwolf said:Interestingly , in California , last count was more women watch porn than men !

My first time to a porn store was when my girlfriend took me because she wanted

to watch porn...in my personal life experience , I have met far more kinky women ,

totally into porn than men...

I would say that has been the case since the beginning of time , though mostly

unadmitted in public !
I agree with you Blackwolf. Truth is men don't hide it, whilst females tend to be more appearance. Thing that I will never understand. Just be yourself and get on with life.

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T_V_Walker
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The problem is letting children watch porn; it is neglect.
I'm sure there are porn stars that love their work. There is no way of gathering all the accounts of the tens of thousands of porn stars and prostitutes  and asking them do you enjoy your work? or do you find it demeaning? or do you have no argument one way or another.  I don't think the depth of the issue is being discussed anymore. I think just because a handful of people know the industry and nothing bad has happened to their associates means they know about the worldwide industry. Just because adults enjoy porn -  and there is no overdose - doesn't mean that are no negative effects on developing minds and ignorant minds. The type of porn varies and everything is easily accessible. you are clicks away from bad stuff. The stuff that nobody should watch. the lines between legality are blurred. I have not watched the fucked up stuff but I am aware of its existence. The women involved may have consented to it, but the acts they have consented to for the purposes of adult film are demeaning to women. If you can argue in favour of that kind of porn then your view of women must be lower than your view of men.

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Blackwolf
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Define "fucked up stuff"

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T_V_Walker
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Violence,  rape,  incest,  blood vampire fetish stuff - deliberately demeaning acts
I haven't seen it but I have watched a UK documentary in which an editor of nuts magazine was shocked by what he was able to access with a few clicks. If he could find it anyone any age with any frame of mind could access it.
The sort of thing that rapists would get off on, it isn't right to film that shit,  it has gone beyond fetish, I don't want to research it, do I need to ?
If you are going to justify violent pornography and say that it isn't demeaning to women in any way then we will never reach a common ground in this discussion.

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JohnnyBlaze
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T_V_Walker said:The problem is letting children watch porn; it is neglect.
I'm sure there are porn stars that love their work. There is no way of gathering all the accounts of the tens of thousands of porn stars and prostitutes  and asking them do you enjoy your work? or do you find it demeaning? or do you have no argument one way or another.  I don't think the depth of the issue is being discussed anymore. I think just because a handful of people know the industry and nothing bad has happened to their associates means they know about the worldwide industry. Just because adults enjoy porn -  and there is no overdose - doesn't mean that are no negative effects on developing minds and ignorant minds. The type of porn varies and everything is easily accessible. you are clicks away from bad stuff. The stuff that nobody should watch. the lines between legality are blurred. I have not watched the fucked up stuff but I am aware of its existence. The women involved may have consented to it, but the acts they have consented to for the purposes of adult film are demeaning to women. If you can argue in favour of that kind of porn then your view of women must be lower than your view of men.


In some cases, the acts are consented to against their better judgement or the acts are, in the heat of the moment, pushed to the limits of what was originally agreed upon.

Even some of the biggest assholes in the adult industry ( speaking specifically of temperament, not in terms of anal orifice circumference ) DESPISE "Max Hardcore" for the way he treats women. I wouldn't even want to be accidentally exposed to his videos and I'm 47. I certainly have no desire to watch anyone purposely made to vomit on camera from a throat fucking.    

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Blackwolf
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Your last sentence of accusation has no merit , as that was not in my question...

You have a poor way of arguing ;

Now , rape or rape fantasy , which some women enjoy in real life ?

Drawing blood in Fetish acts ?

( many different types there in fetish )

Kink and Fetish , can include whipping , piercing ,

extreme bondage , slapping , spanking until welts ,

tongue binding , extreme ( or mild ) hair pulling ,

and all manner of restraints , machines , racks , etc.

What about women who enjoy and get off on pain ?

( I have been with a couple )

What about those who enjoy subjugation , after running

a company all day ?

Who are you to judge them ?

Violence ?

Define your version of violence , please ;


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T_V_Walker
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I am not going to carry this on, I have made my point, There are many types of porn, I don't want to get into semantics. Also I am not a fetish person and have no knowledge of what it means for men and women trans and other distinction. I have nothing against fetish people either, each to there own. but video nasty is different from soft porn and sadly its all on the same sites - there is no check on it - and the internet is everywhere.  I would never want the internet censored I am calling for education and proper  age restriction restriction on the horrible stuff mentioned above.

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Blackwolf
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Yes , you made your point a number of times...

That  does not make you *totally* right ;

Age restriction in U.S. is already there , as well as

many other countries ;

However , you want to put the responsibility on

others , not the parents / guardians , to watch their

own youth , and make sure they are not exposed to it ,

and *that* shifting of responsibility is not only wrong ,

in my eyes , it is totally irresponsible of the parents / guardians ,

and places undue burdens on internet providers / servers ;

Another point which you refuse to define properly , is what

exactly you use to draw the line in terms of violence , or as

now you are bringing in "soft porn" , what you use to determine

hardcore and soft porn ;

Then you mention Fetish as though it is connected to certain bias

and category :

*"Also I am not a fetish person and have no knowledge of what it

means for men and women trans and other distinction.*"

Fetish has extremely little to do with those categories ;

You obviously have not researched or been educated in

what Kink and Fetish is , nor how prevalent it is most

likely behind closed doors of your next door neighbors ;

Try going to a local Kink / Fetish Ball some night ;

Get a real education , not assume , and just declare these

statements regarding your views , which you don't even fully

specify , of *nasty porn* ( O , the horror ! )

Many of us , even here on this site , would greatly disagree

with you as to what is nasty , and what is normal , or even

puritanically prudish ;

Getting into semantics and definitions in this thread to properly

make a point , is what it is all about...not about your opinion , but

about your ability to defend your opinion ;

Even saying :

*"the horrible stuff mentioned above*" ,

has nothing to back up the statement as

that again is a matter of opinion ;

So my point is :

Parents / Guardians , eagle eye your kids if you have to ,

but don't put it on anyone else , and secondly get properly

educated , without any pre - judgements , or prejudices ,

of *all* the categories Kink and Fetish contain , before one

can even begin to know what is truly nasty or not for them ,

let alone daring to decide what is "nasty" or not for anyone

else , as that only shows extreme ignorance and prejudicial

thinking...get my point ?

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todski28
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Blackwolf said:Your last sentence of accusation has no merit , as that was not in my question...

You have a poor way of arguing ;

Now , rape or rape fantasy , which some women enjoy in real life ?

Drawing blood in Fetish acts ?

( many different types there in fetish )

Kink and Fetish , can include whipping , piercing ,

extreme bondage , slapping , spanking until welts ,

tongue binding , extreme ( or mild ) hair pulling ,

and all manner of restraints , machines , racks , etc.

What about women who enjoy and get off on pain ?

( I have been with a couple )

What about those who enjoy subjugation , after running

a company all day ?

Who are you to judge them ?

Violence ?

Define your version of violence , please ;



by your argumentation and adherence to your own kind of moral coding there should be little to no societal governance on sexuality, as there is no end to kinks, people enjoy all sorts of things I personally consider fucked up.

I respect their right to enjoy said things that I consider fucked up, but will cast a moral judgement on them because as people we are judgemental fucks

basically the argumentation here is opinion based, from both sides, in terms of where each person draws the line on what does, or does not turn them on. or what they do or do not find arousing or what they may find abhorrent.

you adherence to your opinion on this matter does not fall far short of accepting and normalising ALL sexualised activities, now, is the consensus on such to be based on those that hold the extremist views on sexuality, which I would consider you to be on an extreme fringe or is it to be modelled on the most sexually repressed or as an argument for societies sake should it be based on the majority of people to attempt to balance out the role of sex and sexuality in our lives.

the more we sway toward the normalisation of all sexual activity the more we swing toward polygamy as a way of life, and as anthropologically defined this ends in a far more violent culture,

there are far more articles to research than simply the one I have provided, but something to look into,

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2012/05/5338/

but this is a side topic......

pornography has its place along with all the other super stimuli we have in our lives these days in a higher degree of access, drugs, alcohol, gambling all the trappings of the masses.

it exists,
it is easily available, and it is the parents utmost responsibility to monitor their children of that there is no doubt, the technology exists to protect your kids from porn, however the sexual education classes start what... when kids are 12 for most western countries,

the ideas and concepts that go along with it, spark curiosity, being less repressed with our own sexuality will help us talk to our own kids and lead them to finding real connections with people as opposed to jacking off to a screen. or what ever the female equivalent may be

porn is a visually designed forum and as such can create unrealistic expectations on men and women for what good sex is, that is something they have to discover on their own and not having a pre mapped mental model from porn could be argued as a good thing, or maybe it could be argued in the opposite direction.

I have no real stake in the claims on others sex lives, but have an invested claim in my children and what is I believe in their best interests and from there hopefully the best interests of society as a functioning whole.



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Blackwolf
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Since you do not really have any idea of me ,

other than what I have written here as far

as morality , pornography , or what I consider

normal , let me help you understand , if you

are able , Todski  ( no insult meant )

First , let me direct you to Revolution Al's

Competition thread on polygamy ;

( where I explain my position and experience )

https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/forum/competitions/read/10286/15/#427510

Secondly , I have studied , and practiced arts from

High Tantra , to Dark Sexuality , and I am a proud

Pagan with no "religious code" , judging god , or

belief in government censorship ( or religious )

other than , as we have agreed , in this thread

previously , amongst those posting , the age

of those concerned ;

So I have no "moral coding" , and disavow

anyone's judgement on me , or anyone else ;

Our bodies , our rights , other bodies involved ,

mutual rights , as well the minds / souls joined

to those bodies ;

Pornography was well displayed in Pompeii , it is nothing new ;


Society has no place determining what occurs behind closed doors

*between consenting adults* ;



Just because I may defend people's rights to indulge in certain

sexual acts , does not mean I myself have indulged in them ,

yet , I have explored many paths , as to me that is the reason

and meaning of life , to expand one's experiential reality and

knowledge , and sensory awareness ;

Now , as far as "*normal*" ;

I consider 99% of the world fucking crazy , especially

those who would condemn pornography , or sexual

acts between consenting adults , then in the same breath

advocate war , and defending imagined territorial boundaries ;



Or those who would choose to enslave others under their

religious political mindframes ;

So , just with this small response I hope you understand

just because one defends the rights of the adult populace

to make their own decisions regarding sex / sexuality / or

portrayal of such , does not define them in any totality

whatsoever ;

I have taught Sacred Tantra , and indulged in the decadent...

So fucking what ?

Someone wants to judge me for that , I have a cork I will give

them...maybe they will like it , maybe not ;

That is not for me to care about or judge...;)

And , yes , this is all opinion in this thread ,

yet there are those who would love to control

the rest of us who believe differently , and

those are far more than people think ;

By the way , in the BDSM scene , there are

codes of behavior , but that is within that scene...

Not imposed on the larger populace of humanity...




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todski28
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Blackwolf said:Since you do not really have any idea of me ,

other than what I have written here as far

as morality , pornography , or what I consider

normal , let me help you understand , if you

are able , Todski  ( no insult meant )

First , let me direct you to Revolution Al's

Competition thread on polygamy ;

( where I explain my position and experience )

https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/forum/competitions/read/10286/15/#427510

Secondly , I have studied , and practiced arts from

High Tantra , to Dark Sexuality , and I am a proud

Pagan with no "religious code" , judging god , or

belief in government censorship ( or religious )

other than , as we have agreed , in this thread

previously , amongst those posting , the age

of those concerned ;

So I have no "moral coding" , and disavow

anyone's judgement on me , or anyone else ;

Our bodies , our rights , other bodies involved ,

mutual rights , as well the minds / souls joined

to those bodies ;

Pornography was well displayed in Pompeii , it is nothing new ;


Society has no place determining what occurs behind closed doors

*between consenting adults* ;



Just because I may defend people's rights to indulge in certain

sexual acts , does not mean I myself have indulged in them ,

yet , I have explored many paths , as to me that is the reason

and meaning of life , to expand one's experiential reality and

knowledge , and sensory awareness ;

Now , as far as "*normal*" ;

I consider 99% of the world fucking crazy , especially

those who would condemn pornography , or sexual

acts between consenting adults , then in the same breath

advocate war , and defending imagined territorial boundaries ;



Or those who would choose to enslave others under their

religious political mindframes ;

So , just with this small response I hope you understand

just because one defends the rights of the adult populace

to make their own decisions regarding sex / sexuality / or

portrayal of such , does not define them in any totality

whatsoever ;

I have taught Sacred Tantra , and indulged in the decadent...

So fucking what ?

Someone wants to judge me for that , I have a cork I will give

them...maybe they will like it , maybe not ;

That is not for me to care about or judge...;)

And , yes , this is all opinion in this thread ,

yet there are those who would love to control

the rest of us who believe differently , and

those are far more than people think ;

By the way , in the BDSM scene , there are

codes of behavior , but that is within that scene...

Not imposed on the larger populace of humanity...





as with all things moderation and adherence to pre-prescribed rules are what help control the discourse between consenting adults, there are dangers of these slipping beyond the bounds of those rules and allowing real harm into the lives of those that were there to explore, there is a fine line between codes of behaviour, outright sociopathy and pre conditioning that can come along with easy fast access to pornography


as an example in conditions of submission that give full control to a person who is in some ways different in emotional connectivity than the average, where do the lines draw away from consent and into the concepts of brain washing, as well as emotional, mental and physical manipulation? with out a code of ethics included into it where do we stop?

disavowing something is one thing, the problem is certain ideas have unintended consequential outcomes when they are manifested in the real world, yes even between consenting adults, so where is a line drawn? how is consent defined, do we now need full contracts for all sexual interactions to ensure what nth degree must be followed and how is it quantifiably measured?

we are all multi-faceted organisms in terms of what we think, feel believe and what we can be convinced of or conversely reject.

the undermining of a human belief structure can be as simple as asking some one to write a pro argument against one of their firmly held convictions.

the findings suggest that having to think about a type of argument in a critical way will sway you to a more favourable position on the topic you formerly opposed, if you did not actually think about your standpoint and why from the beginning merely holding to things dogmatically, or out of "inherited bias" directed by parents/society/your own sense of morality= etc.

now I am free to judge what I do not like and by doing so it gives me a hierarchy of values that allows me to orient myself in the world doing as minimal harm to others as is applicable to the situation.

I was trained from a young age to fight for any affection to belittle, tear down and ultimately destroy anybody that stood against me, I was indoctrinated into a life of violence and adhered to very little in the way of moral coding for a very long time. I was lost in nihilism, drugs, sex and funnily enough bdsm and its codes of practice, and some of the things in there were from my perspective now, mental disorders, but is that me being judgemental or was it/is it a genuine problem? it all ties into pornography so forgive the tangential course

I say control yourself as you wish, but at the same time do so with a sense of the potential your actions have for harm, and as it stands we don't know what harm massive sociological change can have until the next generation takes over as we die off.

as far as sociological change has anything been as revolutionary to us as a species as the internet?

its brilliant and at the same time comes with a lot of unintended consequences.

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Blackwolf
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As long as we can agree each to their own ,

alone and with others , by free will , behind

their own doors ( or club , etc. ) fine ;


But if I would choose to fight for anything ,

I would / will fight to the death against any

outside imposed censorship ;

( by the way , I am against Greek / academic

logic based mentality and systems / morals )

( Think Of Me Like Crowley )

And at 64 , I am perfectly comfortable in my beliefs and actions

thank you very much...;)...conduct yourself *as you choose* ...

And I shall do the same !

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todski28
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Blackwolf said:As long as we can agree each to their own ,

alone and with others , by free will , behind

their own doors ( or club , etc. ) fine ;


But if I would choose to fight for anything ,

I would / will fight to the death against any

outside imposed censorship ;

( by the way , I am against Greek / academic

logic based mentality and systems / morals )

( Think Of Me Like Crowley )

And at 64 , I am perfectly comfortable in my beliefs and actions

thank you very much...;)...conduct yourself *as you choose* ...

And I shall do the same !


is there anything you don't reject besides sexuality

sorry a flippant jab that I found amusing

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Blackwolf
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Well , there are plenty of things I do reject...however ,

sexuality , as per choice is not one of them !

Have a good life , Todski !

Do What Thou Wilt

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todski28
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Blackwolf said:Well , there are plenty of things I do reject...however ,

sexuality , as per choice is not one of them !

Have a good life , Todski !

Do What Thou Wilt


but what if that includes trying to form a doctrine that supresses the sexuality of others?.... ok I'm going to stop being a trolling fuck now

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