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is there a balance between bdsm and sexual harassment/assaul

Poetryman
Tyrant of Words
United States 29awards
Joined 14th Aug 2011
Forum Posts: 1530

I disagree, and that is absolute.

lepperochan
Craic-Dealer
Guardian of Shadows
Palestine 67awards
Joined 1st Apr 2011
Forum Posts: 14449

fair enough, man. and I bear no grudge because you disagree

Umm
Dangerous Mind
Latvia 1awards
Joined 6th Dec 2015
Forum Posts: 2373

Poetryman said:

If that were true, in America we would not need a Supreme Court to interpret the Constitution.


there's a difference between laws/amendments and facts

StaticEcho
Strange Creature
United States
Joined 27th Feb 2018
Forum Posts: 1

There's a fine line; and it only counts as bdsm if both parties have agreed upon it and have rules that each person follows as well as a set of safe words. If anyone tries to be that way, without talking about having that kind of relationship with the person their trying to do that to, then they are simply harassing/abusing them (sexual or otherwise). If they have had the conversation but they don't follow the rules they've set out, or ignore their safe words, then they are being abusive. Hence, why I don't like 50 Shades of Grey. That movie does nothing but make reputable members of the bdsm community look bad.

RByron418
R Byron Johnson
Twisted Dreamer
United States
Joined 16th Jan 2018
Forum Posts: 48

Anonymous said:<< post removed >>

Actually, that's not what Emma Watson said at all.  Her speech before the UN consisted almost entirely of pointing out the various ways that patriarchy hurts men, including them being afraid to talk about sexual abuse they've suffered.

RByron418
R Byron Johnson
Twisted Dreamer
United States
Joined 16th Jan 2018
Forum Posts: 48

Poetryman said:That's a completely ridiculous analogy. People don't go out on a date and get into bdsm after dinner.
I'm not blaming the victim. It is highly unlikely she was aware of what was about to happen. But the guy with the control box knew. Attempting to warn potential victims is not blaming them. She made an uninformed decision. Had she been told the guy was going to kill her she would not have been so eager to be there. It was quite clear she was completely unaware. It was also clearly intentional on the guys part. At the beginning of the video, it was apparent they knew each other and she was comfortable in the situation.
They could have been acting at that point, but not at the end.



Really?  You view women as so naive and innocently stupid that they have no idea what BDSM actually is?

I can introduce you to some women who would gladly teach you otherwise.

But no, you clearly prefer the "innocent damsel" stereotype of women, whereby women really don't and cant consent to anything cuz they like totally HATE sex naturally, so LORD knows they could never justifiably agree to anything "kinky" or "weird" unless they were being coerced in some way.

RKX
Lost Thinker
Canada
Joined 18th Sep 2012
Forum Posts: 14

Miss_Sub said:Hello.

BDSM requires the consent of both parties. If it’s not safe, sane, and consensual then it’s not part of the BDSM spectrum.

Sexual harassment / assault is not consensual. There lies the difference. I guess that’s the black and white answer.



This is exactly right.  People who look into this lifestyle from the outside do not understand at all how things work within it or the dynamic involved for it to be able to happen. There is more trust and safety within a D/s relationship than they can imagine. The OP is really comparing apples to oranges.

Personally I hate it when I see or hear about other Dom's that treat their subs in any kind of disrespectful way without a sub's consent whether written or verbal beforehand. 50 shades of grey is not a bible. It's borderline (or more) abuse. D/s is about pleasing wants and needs and exploring ones self in a completely safe environment to do so.

Poetryman
Tyrant of Words
United States 29awards
Joined 14th Aug 2011
Forum Posts: 1530

RByron418 said:

Really?  You view women as so naive and innocently stupid that they have no idea what BDSM actually is?

I can introduce you to some women who would gladly teach you otherwise.

But no, you clearly prefer the "innocent damsel" stereotype of women, whereby women really don't and cant consent to anything cuz they like totally HATE sex naturally, so LORD knows they could never justifiably agree to anything "kinky" or "weird" unless they were being coerced in some way.


You are another one who pays no attention to facts and decides to put words I have not said into my mouth.

None of what you just claimed about me is true. What I have said is based on actual facts and interviews I have done with real live human victims of abuse that started out as the bdsm relationships you insist everyone is enjoying, but after a period of time escalated beyond the kinky fun sex that many of us enjoy, into a dark and dangerous place where physical and mental harm are done under the guise of bdsm. The trouble is, there ae no bdsm cops to protect women who move from safe words to mouth plugs. Getting beaten, burned, cut, mutilated, raped, sometimes by multiple men, has no connection to kinky.

Being treated like a dog, is not kinky. Being made to remain naked and lay on the floor at a masters feet is not kinky. Not being allowed to leave the house or have family and friends visit is not kinky and has nothing whatsoever to do with any king of sex. It is slavery, which in America, is illegal. I am talking about real life victims, not imaginary damsels in distress.

I know these things have happened and I am bringing facts out in the open. I've never watch or read 50 Shades, so I have no idea what perspective it was written from. I have no interest in Hollywoodized versions of fantasy. The women I talked to were not actors and were not reading from a script. You won't see testimonials from these victims because privacy laws prevent it. The women who have been victimized through these so called relationships don't want to publicize the experience or be reminded of their suffering.

So you'd rather deny it happens? You are who is living in a fantasyland where after the kinky sex is over, you get to take off the cuffs and pull out your corks and have a nice candlelight dinner.

It must be nice to be so naïve. How sweet for those who have a happy ending. For those who don't, you would rather dig a mass grave, deny their suffering and hope no one ever finds the skeletons.

Viddax
Lord Viddax
Guardian of Shadows
United Kingdom 31awards
Joined 10th Oct 2009
Forum Posts: 6672

Bam. Trump Card, because as a Moderator I can hold as many cards as needed.
To preserve this topic recent postings will be hidden so that the posters and any involved or watching can have some time to chill off and return to the topic in hand, which has become rather heated and not in a fun or even kinky way.

Back to the topic in hand.
I do not think any form of bdsm has a 'balance' with sexual harassment and or assault as they different in origin and outcome. BDSM may involve some violence and degradation (or so my researchers tell me) but it is done within a safe environment and with consent or at least a quick exit. Safe words are there for a reason, not just scrabble points.
Whereas harassment and assault are about implementing pain an or violence and or degradation without considering the person they affect beyond any negatives such as making them suffer as much as possible.

I would say that there are people who like pain and having pain inflicted upon themselves, and being dominated, but in such cases they are not looking to simply suffer and be belittled. And discuss.

Ahavati
Tyrant of Words
United States 116awards
Joined 11th Apr 2015
Forum Posts: 14269

Viddax said:Bam. Trump Card, because as a Moderator I can hold as many cards as needed.
To preserve this topic recent postings will be hidden so that the posters and any involved or watching can have some time to chill off and return to the topic in hand, which has become rather heated and not in a fun or even kinky way.. . .


Thank you. The abusive post was reported this morning and I was disheartened calling another an idiot was going to be allowed to stand.

Someone needs to teach debate basics where people actually learn how to focus on the topic vs attacking the person.

Any word on that ' Thunderdome ' potential for those who can't seem to learn?

As for the original topic, the marriage bed is holy and undefiled between two consenting adults. And by marriage I mean commitment. They didn't have marriage ceremonies back then. . .that's a state thing.


Poetryman
Tyrant of Words
United States 29awards
Joined 14th Aug 2011
Forum Posts: 1530

Viddax said:Bam. Trump Card, because as a Moderator I can hold as many cards as needed.
To preserve this topic recent postings will be hidden so that the posters and any involved or watching can have some time to chill off and return to the topic in hand, which has become rather heated and not in a fun or even kinky way.

Back to the topic in hand.
I do not think any form of bdsm has a 'balance' with sexual harassment and or assault as they different in origin and outcome. BDSM may involve some violence and degradation (or so my researchers tell me) but it is done within a safe environment and with consent or at least a quick exit. Safe words are there for a reason, not just scrabble points.
Whereas harassment and assault are about implementing pain an or violence and or degradation without considering the person they affect beyond any negatives such as making them suffer as much as possible.

I would say that there are people who like pain and having pain inflicted upon themselves, and being dominated, but in such cases they are not looking to simply suffer and be belittled. And discuss.


Which is exactly the balance I was hoping for when I started the thread.
Thank you LV!

Umm
Dangerous Mind
Latvia 1awards
Joined 6th Dec 2015
Forum Posts: 2373

I think it's clear that you want to have some way to warn people against the possible dangers of BDSM, which is fine, but I'm still uncertain about whether or not you consider BDSM as something which should be unlawful?

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