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is there a balance between bdsm and sexual harassment/assaul

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Umm
eliza
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perhaps it's best to treat people as individuals and try not to sexually harass anyone regardless of gender (:


Poetryman said:
Is the way men mistreat women in society related to how men want domination in the bedroom?


If men want to be dominated in the bedroom and it's causing them to mistreat women, they should probably work on their communication skills.

you're welcome

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Miss_Sub
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todski28 said:Equality is such a loaded topic

I know for a fact that I am weaker than my other half. Physically. I also know that the first thing I do when I canít open a jar sometimes is say ďcan you open this for me?Ē - do I for a second question the gender politics of this act? Do I for a second think that I somehow might be the weaker sex?

No. Heís just fkn stronger than me.

The problem with equality (and I may get lynched here) is that itís over thought.

Of course I want women to be basically equal in terms of pay to men in the workplace. Of course Iím proud that women fought for the vote. Of course Iím immensely proud that us magical, magical creatures can foster new life and grow tiny human beings from within us.

But I donít feel the need to be a fkn bodybuilder or stop shaving my legs or don the flag of militant feminism to make some weird point that we are somehow equal to men.

Why? because I donít really need too.

Case in point I dealt with a complaint once where an androgynous woman went into the ladies toilets... and a woman complained because she thought it was a dude.

Now Iím not being funny here or anything, but if you want gender equality surely it wouldnít matter if it was a guy. On a primal level, human beings excrete. They have done for thousands upon thousands of years. At what stage did society decide that we had to even shit according to gender?

Itís not gender that divided society. Itís people. Peopleís idea of what is right and wrong. Peopleís idea of what constitutes acceptance.

All I know is I like men. I also like women. For the record, I also like anything inbetween. If youíre a nice person, youíre a nice person. I couldnít give less of a shit about trying to define it all.

I find it fascinating when I see children make friends with each other, and this highlights my point very well. Children donít have any filter - they arenít bothered whether youíre a boy or a girl. They arenít bothered if youíre black or white. They are bothered if you have a cool toy truck or some felt tips that they could also play with. And that reinforces my point even more. We get taught what is acceptable by society and what isnít as we grow, and we loose that care-free filter.

And that makes us really shitty, judgemental human beings.

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StarliteStarfright
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This is quite literally the perfect answer from the perspective of another female who feels the same way as this.

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StarliteStarfright said:This is quite literally the perfect answer from the perspective of another female who feels the same way as this.

*high five*

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lepperochan
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see, straight away your talking about treating females like males and vice versa in the context of equality. I'm saying forget gender and treat people like they're persons. or simply adopt a "do unto others as you want done to you"


about sexuality, certainly not suggesting man and women become blank people with no character, personality etc.everything is sexualized, power drinks, cars,washing up liquid etc.

[I'm for a total ban on advertising aimed at children. essentially a group of people get together and figure out a formula to psych-op our children. ]

I think it boils down to respect. respect for ourselves and respect for others.

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todski28
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Miss_Sub said:

I know for a fact that I am weaker than my other half. Physically. I also know that the first thing I do when I canít open a jar sometimes is say ďcan you open this for me?Ē - do I for a second question the gender politics of this act? Do I for a second think that I somehow might be the weaker sex?

No. Heís just fkn stronger than me.

The problem with equality (and I may get lynched here) is that itís over thought.

Of course I want women to be basically equal in terms of pay to men in the workplace. Of course Iím proud that women fought for the vote. Of course Iím immensely proud that us magical, magical creatures can foster new life and grow tiny human beings from within us.

But I donít feel the need to be a fkn bodybuilder or stop shaving my legs or don the flag of militant feminism to make some weird point that we are somehow equal to men.

Why? because I donít really need too.

Case in point I dealt with a complaint once where an androgynous woman went into the ladies toilets... and a woman complained because she thought it was a dude.

Now Iím not being funny here or anything, but if you want gender equality surely it wouldnít matter if it was a guy. On a primal level, human beings excrete. They have done for thousands upon thousands of years. At what stage did society decide that we had to even shit according to gender?

Itís not gender that divided society. Itís people. Peopleís idea of what is right and wrong. Peopleís idea of what constitutes acceptance.

All I know is I like men. I also like women. For the record, I also like anything inbetween. If youíre a nice person, youíre a nice person. I couldnít give less of a shit about trying to define it all.

I find it fascinating when I see children make friends with each other, and this highlights my point very well. Children donít have any filter - they arenít bothered whether youíre a boy or a girl. They arenít bothered if youíre black or white. They are bothered if you have a cool toy truck or some felt tips that they could also play with. And that reinforces my point even more. We get taught what is acceptable by society and what isnít as we grow, and we loose that care-free filter.

And that makes us really shitty, judgemental human beings.



So i might get lynched here, but im pretty sure the gender pay gap is a myth.

Althought I agree in principal with the child analogy, what changes from then to adulthood is sexuality, were gender toilets created as a socialised construct for segregation yes but why? were they rationalized on the basis that at a certain age we begin to view the world through a biilogically imperative filter. I.e. to procreate and reproduce. Is this attempt to control for experimental nature of budding sexualiry and its inherent dangers i.e. pregnancy, stds, rape, malicious attacks by jealous rivals, the societal judgmentation and questioning of every incident that may involve a youth or adult that may share a space in my opinion creates a lot of the male/female divisions of public spaces and the hard lines drawn between the genders.




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todski28
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lepperochan said:see, straight away your talking about treating females like males and vice versa in the context of equality. I'm saying forget gender and treat people like they're persons. or simply adopt a "do unto others as you want done to you"


about sexuality, certainly not suggesting man and women become blank people with no character, personality etc.everything is sexualized, power drinks, cars,washing up liquid etc.

[I'm for a total ban on advertising aimed at children. essentially a group of people get together and figure out a formula to psych-op our children. ]

I think it boils down to respect. respect for ourselves and respect for others.


Respect has no value if it is granted without it being earned, even self respect has to be earned, that is in my opinion the path to self esteem.

my understanding of equality is i fear fundamentally squewed and may be part of my cognitive dissonance with the proposition.

Your advertising aside, i agree whole heartedly!

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Things do need to change but I can see it being taken too far because not everyone agrees on what is too far. How does a guy ever ask out a woman. Maybe we will all need dating websites to prevent anyone from being offended because someone hey perceive to be ugly asked them for a date. Maybe we should have different color dog tags to let others know if it's ok to ask each other out.

Then we need a special color bracelet o show if we are a Dom or a sub.

But what we really need is good parenting so we know how o treat each other.

I used o teach and I always thought it was crazy that there wasn't a class on human interaction. There should be parenting classes for kids starting at age 12 on how to teach your children whatever you want hem to learn. It seems like we teach kids all these subjects but leave out the most important ones, like how to be equals. Parents spend very little time deliberately teaching their children anything. Mostly kids just absorb bad behavior from them and then have no idea how to find someone to love, let alone actually love hem. Then we have o worry about offending each other or what's ok to do in the bedroom. It's like we need to do a comprehensive job interview and include all of our likes and dislikes and then never, EVER change our minds about anything.

My issue about bdsm is not so much about Domination or submission as it is about how it gets introduced and implemented because I have heard many experiences from women who were with men who slowly eased hem into it. It kept escalating into things they didn't want but by that time they were being completely controlled and abused. So it's like the president saying i's ok for him to obstruct justice because he's in charge. Nixon tried hat too when he said it's not illegal when the president does it, placing himself above he law. That has happened with Doms who make he rules. Once you groom your victim to think being beaten is normal, they stop complaining and accept their whippings.

JJ

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lepperochan
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I think most of us are born with an inherent respect for everything. especially things with a heartbeat. some of us lose it

conditional respect is a tempory gift given until actions or words diminish it. is it worth anything ?

I think sometimes we may mix up trust and respect or something like that ..maybe

i think we should respect everyone and everything without borders. I don't really buy into the have to earn respect line of thought. not knocking it


also, I appreciate the conversation. very interesting.

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I'd like to believe that lep, but I see so much disrespect everywhere. Shopping at the market, sitting in a movie theater, working in an office, teaching in classrooms, driving around town, family relationships... everywhere, it seems like everyone wants to control whatever is going on. Reminds me of a sarcastic poem I wrote several years back...

"Whoís in Control Here!?"

I wanna make you watch all my favorite shows
Wanna expose your deepest secret so everybody knows
Wanna watch you cook my dinner from my easy chair
Wanna tell you I donít care if you think life is unfair
Wanna hear water filling up the tub just before my bath
Wanna take all of your money and let you do the math
Wanna smell pancakes and eggs, from my waking bed
Wanna wash the puny brain in your pretty little head
All I wanna do is to control you

I wanna take away your cell phone for my own
Wanna text whenever I am not at home
Wanna sext whenever youíre too busy for me
Wanna delete all your contacts, all except for me
Wanna call all your friends and tell `em you canít talk
Wanna listen to your calls and watch you like a hawk
Wanna make your actions echo every word I say
Wanna show you who is boss every single day
All I wanna do is to control you

I wanna sit next to you while you steer the wheel
Wanna be chauffeured Ďcos thatís just how I feel
Wanna let you know when itís time to make a turn
Wanna ride till thereís no more gasoline to burn
Wanna tell you when to start and when itís time to stop
Wanna make you evade the law and ignore every cop
Wanna make you drive faster when Iím feeliní slow
Wanna hear you complaininí how Iím always on the go
All I wanna do is to control you

I wanna let you know that you are not alone
Wanna run Ďem off the road for talkin on the phone
Wanna shout that the air and road belong to me
Wanna collect a toll Ďcos my road isnít free
Wanna let everyone learn to get out of my way
Wanna end all freedom, itís the price they gotta pay
Wanna give them equal opportunity to fall
Wanna let each one know who is in charge of it all
All I wanna do is control you too

JJ

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todski28
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......

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cold_fusion
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Miss_Sub said:

I know for a fact that I am weaker than my other half. Physically. I also know that the first thing I do when I canít open a jar sometimes is say ďcan you open this for me?Ē - do I for a second question the gender politics of this act? Do I for a second think that I somehow might be the weaker sex?

No. Heís just fkn stronger than me.

The problem with equality (and I may get lynched here) is that itís over thought.

Of course I want women to be basically equal in terms of pay to men in the workplace. Of course Iím proud that women fought for the vote. Of course Iím immensely proud that us magical, magical creatures can foster new life and grow tiny human beings from within us.

But I donít feel the need to be a fkn bodybuilder or stop shaving my legs or don the flag of militant feminism to make some weird point that we are somehow equal to men.

Why? because I donít really need too.

Case in point I dealt with a complaint once where an androgynous woman went into the ladies toilets... and a woman complained because she thought it was a dude.

Now Iím not being funny here or anything, but if you want gender equality surely it wouldnít matter if it was a guy. On a primal level, human beings excrete. They have done for thousands upon thousands of years. At what stage did society decide that we had to even shit according to gender?

Itís not gender that divided society. Itís people. Peopleís idea of what is right and wrong. Peopleís idea of what constitutes acceptance.

All I know is I like men. I also like women. For the record, I also like anything inbetween. If youíre a nice person, youíre a nice person. I couldnít give less of a shit about trying to define it all.

I find it fascinating when I see children make friends with each other, and this highlights my point very well. Children donít have any filter - they arenít bothered whether youíre a boy or a girl. They arenít bothered if youíre black or white. They are bothered if you have a cool toy truck or some felt tips that they could also play with. And that reinforces my point even more. We get taught what is acceptable by society and what isnít as we grow, and we loose that care-free filter.

And that makes us really shitty, judgemental human beings.


Bull's eye.

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todski28
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todski28
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lepperochan said:I think most of us are born with an inherent respect for everything. especially things with a heartbeat. some of us lose it

conditional respect is a tempory gift given until actions or words diminish it. is it worth anything ?

I think sometimes we may mix up trust and respect or something like that ..maybe

i think we should respect everyone and everything without borders. I don't really buy into the have to earn respect line of thought. not knocking it


also, I appreciate the conversation. very interesting.


My thinking is the other way around

We have an inherent trust of everything from birth, we have to trust our parents to feed us, to comfot us when we cry, to burp us to stop the pain in your stomache.

the whole world is one big dangerous place but we dont know or understand it we have to break down our trust in everything that hurts us, how many babies recoil at a stranger, screaming in fear because the person is new and trust has not been established, if there is no trust the only thing you respect is fear.

a child opening and closing a door there is a blind trusting naievety to the child's interaction, until they jamb their finger, they may go back to it a few more times and do the same again, but once hurt enough you build a guarded respect for the power of pain caused. If the pain is sufficient you build up a wall of fear as well.

My father beat the living fuck out of my entire family in alcohol and drug induced rages,

So the inherent respect i have for another man is one that is guarded by his ability to hurt me, not respect in him as human, that only comes after trust has been established.

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