How Many Here Have Drinking Or Drug Problems?
1. It is perspective that makes one , or those around them ,
see it as a "problem" ; for instance , when I was growing up ,
in the late 1950's / early 1960's , it was quite normal for the
working man to come home , have a few stiff drinks , or
more , or to go to the bar after work , or for the playboy , or
wealthy man , to drink all day , if he wanted to , and then
Dean Martin and the Rat Pack came along , and it was even
more socially accepted ;
In those days , drugs...not so much , but then , we hit the seventies
and whoa , everyone was high on pot , lsd , peyote , or some wild combo ;
Then the eighties , and everyone was snorting cocaine , or smoking pot ,
or even in some circles , crack...then in the late eighties , early nineties ,
all of a sudden it became bad to be inebriated , or stoned , and the whole
thing went to intervention for your own good , and how much money the
recovery centers could make off you or your family , and then there came
along legally , societal accepted pill popping and then , until recently the
opiate craze ; now there is a huge crackdown , and those taking pain pills
are ostracized ( and I forgot , after coke , it was meth that became huge )
These are all cycles of acceptance , then condemnation...
2. Since the beginning of humanity , we have had those in each culture ,
or ceremonies where the whole village would imbibe substances to alter
consciousness ; now this might be seen as a negative , but that is often
by those who come from traditions that emphasize obedience to the status
quo , and / or religious dogma , and do not want anyone to step outside
prescribed boundaries , or re - metaprogram the human bio computer ;
( regarding this I recommend reading Robert Anton Wilson , and his writing
on the Eight Circuitry System , and which drugs including alcohol , affect
which circuits , and what that means , regarding usage to alter the mind )
3. For myself it is only a problem , if I am broke ( fixed income ) and cannot
buy the high quality stout that is my alteration method of choice ; as I live
in a state that legalized medical , and now recreational pot , I have no problem
with that , as here you cannot even give it away...;)...so much of it ;
4. Yes , many of the most creative people have used substances to alter consciousness ,
and gain alternate perspective...yet , this also has extended into shamanic practices , up
to 100,000 years ago , or magical practice , as in the "flying ointment of witches" or many
other traditions ... sex , drugs , drink , and music , have all been used for this purpose...
5. Some in every generation , have been trailblazers , and pushed the limits , to assist in
information going into the societal data bank , regarding alteration of consciousness , and
the effects , and recorded such , or orally passed the information down ; I remember my
days of 50 hits of four way clearlight at one time ( 200 hits of pure lsd ) , or sitting up with
my friends all night long , seeing how much of a pound of opiated hash we could smoke in
one night , or what happened when you snorted a small mountain of cocaine in a night...
Think of people like Tim Leary , John Lilly , William Burroughs , Terence McKenna , just in
recent years...
6. To finish , I as well , do think one thing could be considered a problem...
Not enough politicians have inhaled...;)
And , if someone does come to the realization , *they* have a *problem*
controlling their habits , addictions , desires , and they do not address it ,
*then* there could be said to be a *situation* that needs to be dealt with...
To call it a *problem* , is counterproductive , as we as poets and writers know ,
words affect consciousness , and one word may spur someone to make changes ,
another can push them further into the vortex of depression and / or madness...
Best to you in your *situation* , RByron !
see it as a "problem" ; for instance , when I was growing up ,
in the late 1950's / early 1960's , it was quite normal for the
working man to come home , have a few stiff drinks , or
more , or to go to the bar after work , or for the playboy , or
wealthy man , to drink all day , if he wanted to , and then
Dean Martin and the Rat Pack came along , and it was even
more socially accepted ;
In those days , drugs...not so much , but then , we hit the seventies
and whoa , everyone was high on pot , lsd , peyote , or some wild combo ;
Then the eighties , and everyone was snorting cocaine , or smoking pot ,
or even in some circles , crack...then in the late eighties , early nineties ,
all of a sudden it became bad to be inebriated , or stoned , and the whole
thing went to intervention for your own good , and how much money the
recovery centers could make off you or your family , and then there came
along legally , societal accepted pill popping and then , until recently the
opiate craze ; now there is a huge crackdown , and those taking pain pills
are ostracized ( and I forgot , after coke , it was meth that became huge )
These are all cycles of acceptance , then condemnation...
2. Since the beginning of humanity , we have had those in each culture ,
or ceremonies where the whole village would imbibe substances to alter
consciousness ; now this might be seen as a negative , but that is often
by those who come from traditions that emphasize obedience to the status
quo , and / or religious dogma , and do not want anyone to step outside
prescribed boundaries , or re - metaprogram the human bio computer ;
( regarding this I recommend reading Robert Anton Wilson , and his writing
on the Eight Circuitry System , and which drugs including alcohol , affect
which circuits , and what that means , regarding usage to alter the mind )
3. For myself it is only a problem , if I am broke ( fixed income ) and cannot
buy the high quality stout that is my alteration method of choice ; as I live
in a state that legalized medical , and now recreational pot , I have no problem
with that , as here you cannot even give it away...;)...so much of it ;
4. Yes , many of the most creative people have used substances to alter consciousness ,
and gain alternate perspective...yet , this also has extended into shamanic practices , up
to 100,000 years ago , or magical practice , as in the "flying ointment of witches" or many
other traditions ... sex , drugs , drink , and music , have all been used for this purpose...
5. Some in every generation , have been trailblazers , and pushed the limits , to assist in
information going into the societal data bank , regarding alteration of consciousness , and
the effects , and recorded such , or orally passed the information down ; I remember my
days of 50 hits of four way clearlight at one time ( 200 hits of pure lsd ) , or sitting up with
my friends all night long , seeing how much of a pound of opiated hash we could smoke in
one night , or what happened when you snorted a small mountain of cocaine in a night...
Think of people like Tim Leary , John Lilly , William Burroughs , Terence McKenna , just in
recent years...
6. To finish , I as well , do think one thing could be considered a problem...
Not enough politicians have inhaled...;)
And , if someone does come to the realization , *they* have a *problem*
controlling their habits , addictions , desires , and they do not address it ,
*then* there could be said to be a *situation* that needs to be dealt with...
To call it a *problem* , is counterproductive , as we as poets and writers know ,
words affect consciousness , and one word may spur someone to make changes ,
another can push them further into the vortex of depression and / or madness...
Best to you in your *situation* , RByron !
Most art students I've met like to experiment with drugs and I've had professors who actually encourage it, so it certainly is more common in creative fields and doesn't necessarily have to be a problem. ..but, they have never really interested me
Well , Salvador Dali did say "I don't need drugs , I am the drug"...lol !
( however , I do wonder what he was drinking...absinthe ? )
On the other hand , Umm , did you like "Alice In Wonderland" ?
Yes , Lewis was quite a druggie...;)
I believe it is all personal preference , as it should be...;)
Best to you !
( however , I do wonder what he was drinking...absinthe ? )
On the other hand , Umm , did you like "Alice In Wonderland" ?
Yes , Lewis was quite a druggie...;)
I believe it is all personal preference , as it should be...;)
Best to you !
He did say that! (I changed my reply because I'm not sure whether or not the artists I look up to actually do or don't do drugs)
and yes I like Alice In Wonderland..not sure about dali, but I've read that Picasso drank absinthe.. a lot of older painters also inadvertently inhaled fumes from their paint, which..I suppose, could have drug like effects
and yes I like Alice In Wonderland..not sure about dali, but I've read that Picasso drank absinthe.. a lot of older painters also inadvertently inhaled fumes from their paint, which..I suppose, could have drug like effects
Very good point regarding the paints...
As well , the varnishes , or sealants over the works...
Actually I also remember the affects of glue , when I
was a young boy building models...they never told us !
As far as the paints I can testify to that...
There is a local company , near where I live , that makes
the same paints from elements and minerals which the
old masters used...
I smelled some of those , and got rather immediate effects...
I can only imagine close work in closed spaces , within which
they often worked...;)
As well , the varnishes , or sealants over the works...
Actually I also remember the affects of glue , when I
was a young boy building models...they never told us !
As far as the paints I can testify to that...
There is a local company , near where I live , that makes
the same paints from elements and minerals which the
old masters used...
I smelled some of those , and got rather immediate effects...
I can only imagine close work in closed spaces , within which
they often worked...;)
What if writers and artists were selfish, self-gratifying, egotistical assholes that use drug and alcohol abuse as an excuse to escape problems with life and their wellbeing? Perhaps it's some kind of romance for a writer to lubricate their wit with liquor. But for the average un-self-published writer... what's the point? The world doesn't need Bukowski anymore.
No, I don't have drinking and drug problems... anymore.
No, I don't have drinking and drug problems... anymore.
I wouldn't put it past artists to abdicate responsibility for their well being in many ways, it's perhaps the most selfish and unstable career choice imaginable, and besides egotism, also takes a lot of courage and persistence
T.S. Eliot said that "The progress of an artist is a continual self-sacrifice, a continual extinction of personality." ..the same can be said about alcoholics & etc. (although alcoholism is probably less productive)
T.S. Eliot said that "The progress of an artist is a continual self-sacrifice, a continual extinction of personality." ..the same can be said about alcoholics & etc. (although alcoholism is probably less productive)
I have always had a horrible drug problem, mostly for the party, and here recently pharmaceutical that society insists I need, but I've matured to not enjoy the party crowd too much except for a rare glass of wine. And in my advanced years in my younger body, I'm here to tell you, all these big drug companies are systematically killing off the whole population. PLEASE SEE THIS AS A WARNING TO THOSE WHI HAVE EYES TO SEE AND EARS TO HEAR.
case28 said:What if writers and artists were selfish, self-gratifying, egotistical assholes that use drug and alcohol abuse as an excuse to escape problems with life and their wellbeing? Perhaps it's some kind of romance for a writer to lubricate their wit with liquor. But for the average un-self-published writer... what's the point? The world doesn't need Bukowski anymore.
No, I don't have drinking and drug problems... anymore.
Eh, I mean, you're point does have some truth to it in the sense that really any point contains some grain of truth. And it's also rather satisfyingly "edgy" and rebellious enough to be marketed, stocked, and sold at your local Hot Topic.
But all in all, it's overly simplistic and narrow-minded. There is no singular, "one size fits all" motive for anything.
I've known addicts who really were just spoiled brats who just can't seem to tolerate the fact that life doesn't come with immediate gratification; thus, they take matters into their own hands to achieve that immediate gratification regardless of whatever effect it has on themselves or those around them.
The only thing they're trying to "escape" is the reality that they aren't entitled to the pampered upbringing they became accustomed to through childhood and adolescence.
But others are trying to escape genuine pain, trauma, mental illness, etc....
Is it selfish, or at least, self-centered? Of course. Pain makes everyone self-centered, be that pain physical or emotional.
Like, even if you stub your toe really hard, in that moment when you're experiencing that pain, do you care at all about anything or anyone else except your poor toe? No. Pain is DESIGNED to make us self-centered so that we can then resolve whatever is causing that pain before it results in further injury or damage.
And some pain (particularly emotional pain) lasts longer than others and can be chronically recurrent, thus extending the individual's self-centered perspective.
No, I don't have drinking and drug problems... anymore.
Eh, I mean, you're point does have some truth to it in the sense that really any point contains some grain of truth. And it's also rather satisfyingly "edgy" and rebellious enough to be marketed, stocked, and sold at your local Hot Topic.
But all in all, it's overly simplistic and narrow-minded. There is no singular, "one size fits all" motive for anything.
I've known addicts who really were just spoiled brats who just can't seem to tolerate the fact that life doesn't come with immediate gratification; thus, they take matters into their own hands to achieve that immediate gratification regardless of whatever effect it has on themselves or those around them.
The only thing they're trying to "escape" is the reality that they aren't entitled to the pampered upbringing they became accustomed to through childhood and adolescence.
But others are trying to escape genuine pain, trauma, mental illness, etc....
Is it selfish, or at least, self-centered? Of course. Pain makes everyone self-centered, be that pain physical or emotional.
Like, even if you stub your toe really hard, in that moment when you're experiencing that pain, do you care at all about anything or anyone else except your poor toe? No. Pain is DESIGNED to make us self-centered so that we can then resolve whatever is causing that pain before it results in further injury or damage.
And some pain (particularly emotional pain) lasts longer than others and can be chronically recurrent, thus extending the individual's self-centered perspective.
