Should moderators take down opinions of DU members?
Lofty opinions of ourselves? That's an interesting statement. It suggests that you think my poetic ideals are of a higher standard than yours. Perhaps that's not what you mean.
In any case, we obviously have different opinions about what is art. That is probably why neither one of us comments on each others poems. I've read your work and it doesn't inspire me to comment. There are other poets here who write erotic poems whose work I do comment on. I also get comments on my own erotic poems that are quite complimentary.
I am not offended by profanity, I use it when I feel it is necessary, I just don't feel it is necessary in poetry. Describing body parts slapping together during sex is journalism, not poetry. I've complained and written poetry for years about how so much of what people try to pass off as poetry is really just journalism is a structured disguise. I have nothing against journalism, I just don't want it pretending to be poetry. I'm not accusing you of doing that, I'm just making a point. We all have opinions and it's ok to express them. You have yours, I have mine. I just try to keep from posting them in comps. I have a couple of times when the comp itself seemed more like a discussion board than a comp. We all draw lines about most things we experience in life. That's what discussion boards like this are for. None of my posts have been written in anger. I'm just expressing how I feel. It's ok if you feel differently. As examples, here are a couple of poems I wrote on that subject in the past.
"Nytbsl, This is Precisely Why I Never Comment on Your Poems!"
Stop begging me for comments
I am unimpressed with your journalism
Set to rhyme and faux flow
Oozing with commentary on the streets
That I can see by looking out my window
When I wonder what the weather is like
And if the garbage has been picked up
As your emotionless ranting spews forth
From between your ever flapping gums
Whistling as it passes the caverns in your teeth
Please just shut up and put your pen to bed
Stop robbing my eyes of enlightening desires
Carried by the passions imparted by real poetry
Your cold commentary is a dictionary of lines
Without heart nor soul to tickle my strings
Conducting a choir of silence that never sings
________________________
Published 28th August 2015
-----------------------------------------
"Show AND Tell"
Don’t show me snapshots of pixilated faces
and vanilla homes with chocolate covered windows
In a stone cold Google street-view
Glaring through your camera clicking gaze
Snapshots won’t tell me if you have a heart that cares
Your eyes are mere windows, introduce your soul
Express emotions for the drunk in the gutter you saw lying there
Spare me your cold faux news commentary
In journalists accounts of potholes in the streets
Flooded by streams filled with empty imagery
Where a glut of meaningless metaphors pose as poetry
Paint me a painfully vivid Van Gogh
Don’t pop off plastic pics from Warhol’s bag of tricks
I’d rather you just tell me than show a painted face
That even lifeless mannequins would rather die
Than be manipulated by the ink that you portray
I’m so sick of it, so tired of photos full of holes
Bled dry of the emotion androids fail to feel
Until black and white is read all over
And over and over without a heartbeat changing pace
Like your wall of cleavage dripping selfies
Thinking you express secrets that no one else can see
Some hidden imagery declaring sex is never free
Somehow between the lines, you paint redundancy
Where prose pretends to stand in stanzas
Of broken sentences cloaked in nursery rhymes
Instead, express your passion and your pain
In a flowing river of vivid prismic dreams
Allow your heart to PEN the words beating deep in you
Then and only then your ink reveals its crimson hue
___________________________
Published 10th December 2014
--------------------------------------------
JJ
calamitygin said:just feel that what makes poetry poetry, as opposed to prose, is the use of metaphor, imagery and meter in a creative way. In my opinion, spouting profanity in poetry is not creative
I use plenty of metaphor, imagery in.prose
Prose is chock full of metaphor...
Tell me, would you call Vonegutt a pornographor? He uses profanity in poetrry and prose. It is about a feel and the voice, socio circumstances, and atmosphere. Just because you dont no one should and there is no just cause?!!
WOW we seem to have some lofty opinions of ourselves.
In any case, we obviously have different opinions about what is art. That is probably why neither one of us comments on each others poems. I've read your work and it doesn't inspire me to comment. There are other poets here who write erotic poems whose work I do comment on. I also get comments on my own erotic poems that are quite complimentary.
I am not offended by profanity, I use it when I feel it is necessary, I just don't feel it is necessary in poetry. Describing body parts slapping together during sex is journalism, not poetry. I've complained and written poetry for years about how so much of what people try to pass off as poetry is really just journalism is a structured disguise. I have nothing against journalism, I just don't want it pretending to be poetry. I'm not accusing you of doing that, I'm just making a point. We all have opinions and it's ok to express them. You have yours, I have mine. I just try to keep from posting them in comps. I have a couple of times when the comp itself seemed more like a discussion board than a comp. We all draw lines about most things we experience in life. That's what discussion boards like this are for. None of my posts have been written in anger. I'm just expressing how I feel. It's ok if you feel differently. As examples, here are a couple of poems I wrote on that subject in the past.
"Nytbsl, This is Precisely Why I Never Comment on Your Poems!"
Stop begging me for comments
I am unimpressed with your journalism
Set to rhyme and faux flow
Oozing with commentary on the streets
That I can see by looking out my window
When I wonder what the weather is like
And if the garbage has been picked up
As your emotionless ranting spews forth
From between your ever flapping gums
Whistling as it passes the caverns in your teeth
Please just shut up and put your pen to bed
Stop robbing my eyes of enlightening desires
Carried by the passions imparted by real poetry
Your cold commentary is a dictionary of lines
Without heart nor soul to tickle my strings
Conducting a choir of silence that never sings
________________________
Published 28th August 2015
-----------------------------------------
"Show AND Tell"
Don’t show me snapshots of pixilated faces
and vanilla homes with chocolate covered windows
In a stone cold Google street-view
Glaring through your camera clicking gaze
Snapshots won’t tell me if you have a heart that cares
Your eyes are mere windows, introduce your soul
Express emotions for the drunk in the gutter you saw lying there
Spare me your cold faux news commentary
In journalists accounts of potholes in the streets
Flooded by streams filled with empty imagery
Where a glut of meaningless metaphors pose as poetry
Paint me a painfully vivid Van Gogh
Don’t pop off plastic pics from Warhol’s bag of tricks
I’d rather you just tell me than show a painted face
That even lifeless mannequins would rather die
Than be manipulated by the ink that you portray
I’m so sick of it, so tired of photos full of holes
Bled dry of the emotion androids fail to feel
Until black and white is read all over
And over and over without a heartbeat changing pace
Like your wall of cleavage dripping selfies
Thinking you express secrets that no one else can see
Some hidden imagery declaring sex is never free
Somehow between the lines, you paint redundancy
Where prose pretends to stand in stanzas
Of broken sentences cloaked in nursery rhymes
Instead, express your passion and your pain
In a flowing river of vivid prismic dreams
Allow your heart to PEN the words beating deep in you
Then and only then your ink reveals its crimson hue
___________________________
Published 10th December 2014
--------------------------------------------
JJ
calamitygin said:just feel that what makes poetry poetry, as opposed to prose, is the use of metaphor, imagery and meter in a creative way. In my opinion, spouting profanity in poetry is not creative
I use plenty of metaphor, imagery in.prose
Prose is chock full of metaphor...
Tell me, would you call Vonegutt a pornographor? He uses profanity in poetrry and prose. It is about a feel and the voice, socio circumstances, and atmosphere. Just because you dont no one should and there is no just cause?!!
WOW we seem to have some lofty opinions of ourselves.
I see it as simple as:
if someone is personally, or if a race, religion etc. is personally attacked, censor it. Otherwise, go nuts.
In terms of erotica, the subject doesn't really interest me, but I guess my opinion on that is if you (not anyone in particular, just a general you) think something is "pornographic" rather than "erotica" doesn't that equate to it just being (in your opinion) bad poetry?
And since when do we censor bad poetry?
if someone is personally, or if a race, religion etc. is personally attacked, censor it. Otherwise, go nuts.
In terms of erotica, the subject doesn't really interest me, but I guess my opinion on that is if you (not anyone in particular, just a general you) think something is "pornographic" rather than "erotica" doesn't that equate to it just being (in your opinion) bad poetry?
And since when do we censor bad poetry?
"I just love that i have had peoples opininions posted thtoughout my comps...things like "you stupid ho!" and "bitch" by Smook..." Calamitygin
Wait. What?! THIS was actually said? Are there not guidelines here that prohibit personal attacks?
Edited to add: A personal attack is not an opinion; it's a personal attack. I am shocked and very disheartened that this is happening here.
Wait. What?! THIS was actually said? Are there not guidelines here that prohibit personal attacks?
Edited to add: A personal attack is not an opinion; it's a personal attack. I am shocked and very disheartened that this is happening here.
Oh no....i hope they have raging erections after reading my stuff.
I get plenty hot after reading others work.
This was about censorship. Erotica can stimulate.
There is a connotation to the word porn that i do not want associated to my poetry.
Be honest
...someone leaves a comment saying.
"This is porn." how do you feel?
Doubtful flattered.....
..and everyone here damn well knows it.
Hepcat....i dont think you meant anything awful. This really wasnt anout you.
That is not what this thread was suposed to be about. I wanted to talk about censorship. I would have removed it on my own if asked.
Forget this whole fucking thing.
I get plenty hot after reading others work.
This was about censorship. Erotica can stimulate.
There is a connotation to the word porn that i do not want associated to my poetry.
Be honest
...someone leaves a comment saying.
"This is porn." how do you feel?
Doubtful flattered.....
..and everyone here damn well knows it.
Hepcat....i dont think you meant anything awful. This really wasnt anout you.
That is not what this thread was suposed to be about. I wanted to talk about censorship. I would have removed it on my own if asked.
Forget this whole fucking thing.
Anonymous
calamitygin said:And i would agree completely exept not all porn is art and erotica. And not all erotica is porn. And many are saying the use of some terms are vulgar, most likely porn. I write to stimulate mind not genatalia.....period.
So you do want people to have stimulated genitals? Because at first you said you stimulated minds not genitals.
If someone calls my work porn, I really don't care. Really. What makes porn bad and erotica good? You still haven't told me what you think the difference is.
And if you want to talk about censorship, you can't claim to be censored and how you don't like it and then in the next few posts try to tell people how they can and cannot react to your poetry. You don't have to like what they have to say, but you can't tell them to keep their opinions about your pieces to themselves in an open forum. You can control on your personal page by deleting comments or blocking them, but not in forums like this. Personal attacks are a different matter. Anyone who reads your work is free to offer their opinion. And if they want to call it porn, You can't really stop them. Again, someone will always think that pieces about sex are vulgar and pornographic.
Personal attacks are different and should be reported to the mods. They can't police everything. That's why we have a report button. If you have experienced personal attacks, you should report them.
If you really want to stop the thread, that's fine. But I really am interested in what you think the difference between porn and erotica is. I'd like to know why having porn attached to your work is so upsetting.
So you do want people to have stimulated genitals? Because at first you said you stimulated minds not genitals.
If someone calls my work porn, I really don't care. Really. What makes porn bad and erotica good? You still haven't told me what you think the difference is.
And if you want to talk about censorship, you can't claim to be censored and how you don't like it and then in the next few posts try to tell people how they can and cannot react to your poetry. You don't have to like what they have to say, but you can't tell them to keep their opinions about your pieces to themselves in an open forum. You can control on your personal page by deleting comments or blocking them, but not in forums like this. Personal attacks are a different matter. Anyone who reads your work is free to offer their opinion. And if they want to call it porn, You can't really stop them. Again, someone will always think that pieces about sex are vulgar and pornographic.
Personal attacks are different and should be reported to the mods. They can't police everything. That's why we have a report button. If you have experienced personal attacks, you should report them.
If you really want to stop the thread, that's fine. But I really am interested in what you think the difference between porn and erotica is. I'd like to know why having porn attached to your work is so upsetting.
Ahavati said:"I just love that i have had peoples opininions posted thtoughout my comps...things like "you stupid ho!" and "bitch" by Smook..." Calamitygin
Wait. What?! THIS was actually said? Are there not guidelines here that prohibit personal attacks?
Edited to add: A personal attack is not an opinion; it's a personal attack. I am shocked and very disheartened that this is happening here.
Unfortunately stuff like this does happen and I thought we took care of this guy's comments --if we've missed some, can someone give a heads up where there are more that need attending to, so we can get on it ? Thanks!
Wait. What?! THIS was actually said? Are there not guidelines here that prohibit personal attacks?
Edited to add: A personal attack is not an opinion; it's a personal attack. I am shocked and very disheartened that this is happening here.
Unfortunately stuff like this does happen and I thought we took care of this guy's comments --if we've missed some, can someone give a heads up where there are more that need attending to, so we can get on it ? Thanks!
Calamity, you say this was supposed to be about censorship, but you asked in your initial post what was the difference between erotica and porn... had you kept that out of it, this thread would have been very brief. It was not censorship because it was an issue of a comment in a comp that belonged in a discussion thread. Now it is. Personally I think this is an excellent discussion about poetry and how we all feel about erotica. I'm sorry your feelings have been hurt. I don't think anyone is being attacked here, we are all just posting very passionately about our passionate poetry. I enjoy a vigorous debate almost as much as vigorous sex. I wish I had an equal amount of each, but debates seem to happen a whole lot more often, hence erotica happens...
JJ
calamitygin said:Does censorship exist in DU?
OK, other strictures – if you go erotic, don’t go pornographic… What’s the difference? ‘glad you asked!
*If the heat on the page requires no imagination from the reader… pornographic!
BUT
*If the heat on the page is all in the imagination of the reader… erotic!
This was the definition of pornographic in a members comp rules. I responded that i took offense. I use imagery...but also i create erotica and art not porn.
My response was taken down without even speaking to me.
Maybe it was right...I feel it is censorship.
What are your opinions?
JJ
calamitygin said:Does censorship exist in DU?
OK, other strictures – if you go erotic, don’t go pornographic… What’s the difference? ‘glad you asked!
*If the heat on the page requires no imagination from the reader… pornographic!
BUT
*If the heat on the page is all in the imagination of the reader… erotic!
This was the definition of pornographic in a members comp rules. I responded that i took offense. I use imagery...but also i create erotica and art not porn.
My response was taken down without even speaking to me.
Maybe it was right...I feel it is censorship.
What are your opinions?
I dont think you understand. You are not a woman. You dont get the sleezebags that think because you write sex you want to hear how hatd you make them. I am unsure where i said the "lofty" thing...
I have never felt anything other than respect for your wprk.
I was explaining why i said what i said at all. I would appreciate everyone getting off my fucking back.
The only thing i took any real offense to was lep calling me vulgar.
Everyone else was just voicing their opinion.
This is my last post. I am in the middle of a really bad situation at home.
I have never felt anything other than respect for your wprk.
I was explaining why i said what i said at all. I would appreciate everyone getting off my fucking back.
The only thing i took any real offense to was lep calling me vulgar.
Everyone else was just voicing their opinion.
This is my last post. I am in the middle of a really bad situation at home.
Anonymous
he didn't call you vulgar. he called that particular line vulgar. there is a difference, in my opinion. so it wasn't a personal attack, it was stating that he thought that particular line was vulgar.
and i do understand getting the inbox messages. i've had them. many times. for a long time, i put every single erotic piece in the misc. section so that the random readers who are not a part of the community (or people who don't follow me) wouldn't find them. there is also a report button in the private messages. if you are getting sleazeballs messaging you all the time, i'd suggest making use of that feature.
i am sorry your in a bad situation at home. i hope it gets better.
and i do understand getting the inbox messages. i've had them. many times. for a long time, i put every single erotic piece in the misc. section so that the random readers who are not a part of the community (or people who don't follow me) wouldn't find them. there is also a report button in the private messages. if you are getting sleazeballs messaging you all the time, i'd suggest making use of that feature.
i am sorry your in a bad situation at home. i hope it gets better.
SatansSperm said:as soon as we start to censor our work...our thoughts...I shall start to learn to goose-step....put another book on the barbie....time for a little soul food.
We are not censoring our work. Though I suppose I censor my own work, but that is just me being creative in my work. If I choose to find a non-profane way to describe the sexual meeting of my flesh with that of another body, I don't think that I am censoring myself. I'm still writing erotica, just not as explicit. I like to leave something to the imagination of the reader so they can enjoy the ride in a more personal way.
No one is being stopped from speaking, no goose stepping Nazis anywhere in site...
JJ
We are not censoring our work. Though I suppose I censor my own work, but that is just me being creative in my work. If I choose to find a non-profane way to describe the sexual meeting of my flesh with that of another body, I don't think that I am censoring myself. I'm still writing erotica, just not as explicit. I like to leave something to the imagination of the reader so they can enjoy the ride in a more personal way.
No one is being stopped from speaking, no goose stepping Nazis anywhere in site...
JJ
For no one's information, I rather dislike profanity and can find a lot of DU erotic poetry that I read rather overt. Though for certain poets such things don't factor into it: either it suits their style, or their style changes the profanity into a pithy word and the erotic poetry into a subtle seduction. - But it is why I often leave the censorship to other mods, I often don't have a clue and feel my judgement would be too severe.
As for censorship, well, DU is rather carefree with censorship most of the time, but comes down hard on things that are just wrong like paedophilia and racism. Yet even then, with enough craft, art and tact, such themes can be acceptable and hide in plain sight, and respected as a person's interest without grabbing torches and pitchforks! Though when it comes to competitions the hammer lands hard as more often than not comments are not welcomed or allowed in competition threads. However if explicitly stated by the host or done by them then commenting does seem to be allowed. I try to comment on all entries when hosting a poem, though it is understandable why others don't do that or would rather have the comment on the poem rather in the thread.
Now onto the daft extractions!
"but I've tried writing poetry during sex and it just doesn't work..." Poetryman.
- Now I'm no expert on sex, but surely you should have been focussed on something other than the pen and more words? Though they do say men cannot multitask and only think about sex, so this is an excellent example that speaks against that!
"Is DU a dictatorship? How do you decide?" calamitygin
- DU if anything is an oligarchy given the nature of the mods and the 'power' they wield, but due to non-mods having more experience in things (poetry, life, competition wins, sailing, etc etc) and the power of the people when pissed and peeved, DU is seemingly more a constitutional (the DU rules) oligarchic (mods) monarchic (webmistress) democracy (all members) with revolutionary elements (instances of members wanting some change)!
Plus rather than invoking spirits or spinning a board DU often decides through discussion and mod-talk (as far as I know, cannot be certain about shaman craic!)
All in all, words have power, use them wisely.
As for censorship, well, DU is rather carefree with censorship most of the time, but comes down hard on things that are just wrong like paedophilia and racism. Yet even then, with enough craft, art and tact, such themes can be acceptable and hide in plain sight, and respected as a person's interest without grabbing torches and pitchforks! Though when it comes to competitions the hammer lands hard as more often than not comments are not welcomed or allowed in competition threads. However if explicitly stated by the host or done by them then commenting does seem to be allowed. I try to comment on all entries when hosting a poem, though it is understandable why others don't do that or would rather have the comment on the poem rather in the thread.
Now onto the daft extractions!
"but I've tried writing poetry during sex and it just doesn't work..." Poetryman.
- Now I'm no expert on sex, but surely you should have been focussed on something other than the pen and more words? Though they do say men cannot multitask and only think about sex, so this is an excellent example that speaks against that!
"Is DU a dictatorship? How do you decide?" calamitygin
- DU if anything is an oligarchy given the nature of the mods and the 'power' they wield, but due to non-mods having more experience in things (poetry, life, competition wins, sailing, etc etc) and the power of the people when pissed and peeved, DU is seemingly more a constitutional (the DU rules) oligarchic (mods) monarchic (webmistress) democracy (all members) with revolutionary elements (instances of members wanting some change)!
Plus rather than invoking spirits or spinning a board DU often decides through discussion and mod-talk (as far as I know, cannot be certain about shaman craic!)
All in all, words have power, use them wisely.
It seems we need a refresher course on HOW TO USE THE GODDAM QUOTE BUTTON.
I think comps would benefit from some sort of disclaimer that either encourages or discourages excessive chatter.
I personally don't go to the comp threads to read opinions or back clapping.
I think comps would benefit from some sort of disclaimer that either encourages or discourages excessive chatter.
I personally don't go to the comp threads to read opinions or back clapping.
Magnetron said:It seems we need a refresher course on HOW TO USE THE GODDAM QUOTE BUTTON.
I think comps would benefit from some sort of disclaimer that either encourages or discourages excessive chatter.
I personally don't go to the comp threads to read opinions or back clapping.
Perhaps the Webmiss could install a feature into user profiles that states one's comp preference.
This user encourages ____________ in his or her own competition threads.
Check off the following that applies
- all out insanity
- strictly nothing but entries
- personal attacks from his or her own ALT accounts
I think comps would benefit from some sort of disclaimer that either encourages or discourages excessive chatter.
I personally don't go to the comp threads to read opinions or back clapping.
Perhaps the Webmiss could install a feature into user profiles that states one's comp preference.
This user encourages ____________ in his or her own competition threads.
Check off the following that applies
- all out insanity
- strictly nothing but entries
- personal attacks from his or her own ALT accounts
