Mein Kampf re-released in Germany
(New members aren't allowed to post website links, so to watch the video I meant to contextualise this thread go to YouTube, search "'Mein Kampf' to Return to German Bookstores" and click the first video, produced by the channel The Young Turks.)
How do we feel about this as people who, presumably, have some interest in literature? Should any book ever be banned, for any reason?
How do we feel about this as people who, presumably, have some interest in literature? Should any book ever be banned, for any reason?
https://youtu.be/XpE2lrUhKso
just to put it in context. the book has always been available, at least since the age of the www.
books used to be banned here all the time a while back, pretty sure schools in the US have books banned, probably in the UK too
thing is, banning books don't do fuck all no more, not with the internet in the picture. so I think banning books is a just a token gesture
ok so the book will be edited with thousands of comments about how deranged Hitler was etc. but first off it struck me as a money making stunt seeing as how the copyright runs out at the end of the year
I don't like the idea of the book being edited
that said, Germany is a bit tense at the moment and for good reason. that book may be a bad thing but again, for the most part of he last twenty years its been available on the net
just to put it in context. the book has always been available, at least since the age of the www.
books used to be banned here all the time a while back, pretty sure schools in the US have books banned, probably in the UK too
thing is, banning books don't do fuck all no more, not with the internet in the picture. so I think banning books is a just a token gesture
ok so the book will be edited with thousands of comments about how deranged Hitler was etc. but first off it struck me as a money making stunt seeing as how the copyright runs out at the end of the year
I don't like the idea of the book being edited
that said, Germany is a bit tense at the moment and for good reason. that book may be a bad thing but again, for the most part of he last twenty years its been available on the net
Thank you for an interesting reply, lepperochan. I agree with you, of course, that the internet renders any such censorship moot, and I think that that is such an accepted and understood fact now that it isn't even in dispute. Even the broadcasters in that Young Turks video acknowledge it. Since WWII Germany has gone through a denazification which sees people arrested for so much as making Hitler salutes, but with the rise of the internet maybe they have reached a point where they've just said 'eh... whatever', and started lifting the restrictions, even if only a little.
I don't think the book is going to be edited so much as just annotated. What would be the point of editing it? We already know what Hitler did and what he stood for, so to edit it would just be to sanitise and thus potentially cover up a lot of what he said and did. I hadn't considered the financial and copyright aspect. That's an interesting angle at which to look at the subject.
I don't think the book is going to be edited so much as just annotated. What would be the point of editing it? We already know what Hitler did and what he stood for, so to edit it would just be to sanitise and thus potentially cover up a lot of what he said and did. I hadn't considered the financial and copyright aspect. That's an interesting angle at which to look at the subject.
well ok, annotated so much that it doubles the amount of original pages, I just don't like the idea at all. release the book as it was in its original state ...but they can't cos there are nations which prohibit hate speak
and so, that brings me to another of your questions ...should books be banned for any reason ?
i dunno, I mean sure there's subjects that could be too scummy to publish but I dunno, its a tough call
"We already know what Hitler did and what he stood for,"
a little bit off topic, and I apologize ..but the third Reich wasn't the work of one man and evidence would suggest that Hitler was among the puppets ..just saying
and so, that brings me to another of your questions ...should books be banned for any reason ?
i dunno, I mean sure there's subjects that could be too scummy to publish but I dunno, its a tough call
"We already know what Hitler did and what he stood for,"
a little bit off topic, and I apologize ..but the third Reich wasn't the work of one man and evidence would suggest that Hitler was among the puppets ..just saying
Its a bit weird how you have said about nations prohibiting hate, yet 'Beyond Good and Evil' is still available to buy, and pretty much calls the Jews a race of slaves. "The Jews - a people born into slavery according to Tacitus and the entire ancient world". And there is of course the anti-Christianity and misogynistic sentiment spread throughout the book. (Weird as in it exists, not as in it is something you have blindly missed and am being accounted for.)
This leads nicely onto my point, and back onto topic.
No book or knowledge should be banned.
It is within the realm of application that should be banned. So it means you can learn how to build a bomb, how to flay flesh from a living being, how to cheat the tax system, but never actually be able to implement such actions. The same basic principles of building a bomb could be useful another time, say for instance fixing an electric clock and remembering to plan the wires in a certain order. That in flaying flesh you need to apply certain force here, so when examining a new parachute system you remember that if this parachute malfunctioned it could accidentally flay the wearer rather than save them.
The sense of taboo around it, almost seems a bit like embarrassment and being reminded of that. - That the world had been given and shown a few clues here and there of what Hitler, the Third Reich, and WWII could lead to, but we did very little to stop it. Churchill has been alluded to have said that after Hitler's ascension to power, that Mein Kampf deserved more scrutiny. (I have failed to actually find him quoted as saying that.) Which sums up a nice point: only by learning from the mistakes of the past can we prevent the mistakes of the future.
On a side note, has anyone here actually read Mein Kampf? I would like to know if there is an apparent amount of reference to willpower and conquering the self.
It is a tragedy of the highest degree when the evils of the past are only decried even further, and no one can seem to think about learning the reasons for such evil and how to prevent it from happening ever again.
This leads nicely onto my point, and back onto topic.
No book or knowledge should be banned.
It is within the realm of application that should be banned. So it means you can learn how to build a bomb, how to flay flesh from a living being, how to cheat the tax system, but never actually be able to implement such actions. The same basic principles of building a bomb could be useful another time, say for instance fixing an electric clock and remembering to plan the wires in a certain order. That in flaying flesh you need to apply certain force here, so when examining a new parachute system you remember that if this parachute malfunctioned it could accidentally flay the wearer rather than save them.
The sense of taboo around it, almost seems a bit like embarrassment and being reminded of that. - That the world had been given and shown a few clues here and there of what Hitler, the Third Reich, and WWII could lead to, but we did very little to stop it. Churchill has been alluded to have said that after Hitler's ascension to power, that Mein Kampf deserved more scrutiny. (I have failed to actually find him quoted as saying that.) Which sums up a nice point: only by learning from the mistakes of the past can we prevent the mistakes of the future.
On a side note, has anyone here actually read Mein Kampf? I would like to know if there is an apparent amount of reference to willpower and conquering the self.
It is a tragedy of the highest degree when the evils of the past are only decried even further, and no one can seem to think about learning the reasons for such evil and how to prevent it from happening ever again.
Anonymous
banning*
"Since WWII Germany has gone through a denazification which sees people arrested for so much as making Hitler salutes"
seems like one extreme to another. arrested for a hand signal..
what I got from the annotation additions is they're being added to facilitate surrounding nations laws on hate speak. without the annotations the book wouldn't be allowed on the shelves, much revenue would be lost. I do believe it's strictly a financial venture. the mobilization of far right activists and groups throughout central Europe over the past couple of years has grown pretty strong, so it would seem like a sound investment
Books are great, we all agree on that. but, they're not special when it comes to expression. there are many forms: song, paintings, theater, silver screen, talk etc ...songs can be very incite-full, p'raps more so than books because songs can be sang collectively in real time by thousands of people
my point is freedom of expression should be universal to all expression regardless of its genre or nature. ..including hand signals, flags, songs, movies, books, talk etc
so, when we ban an item from one of the above, all of the above suffer in the long term. not to mention our freedoms.
seems like one extreme to another. arrested for a hand signal..
what I got from the annotation additions is they're being added to facilitate surrounding nations laws on hate speak. without the annotations the book wouldn't be allowed on the shelves, much revenue would be lost. I do believe it's strictly a financial venture. the mobilization of far right activists and groups throughout central Europe over the past couple of years has grown pretty strong, so it would seem like a sound investment
Books are great, we all agree on that. but, they're not special when it comes to expression. there are many forms: song, paintings, theater, silver screen, talk etc ...songs can be very incite-full, p'raps more so than books because songs can be sang collectively in real time by thousands of people
my point is freedom of expression should be universal to all expression regardless of its genre or nature. ..including hand signals, flags, songs, movies, books, talk etc
so, when we ban an item from one of the above, all of the above suffer in the long term. not to mention our freedoms.
If there is a book to be banned it is "Mein Kampf" meaning my struggle. That book is pure and utter hate speech about a ruthless tyrant. From a historical point of view it is interesting but quite frankly if that booked is never to be read again it'll be too soon. The whole freedom of speech argument is idiotic at best. This book is a sheer example of indoctrination, genocide, xenophobia and hate speech. On that basis alone freedom of speech in this case should be suspended. It should not under any circumstances other than for historical research be allowed to read by the public. That book may potential stir up extremist thinking for the youth. Again quite frankly this world is already chaotic enough! That book stands against any humanitarian logic. It reminds us of a brutal past...it's only purpose now is to pose as a reminder. In short that book must be banned and only used under special permission.
But that is just my opinion.
But that is just my opinion.
Anonymous
highwaytohell said:If there is a book to be banned it is "Mein Kampf" meaning my struggle. That book is pure and utter hate speech about a ruthless tyrant.
To be honest, on that basis you could say the same about The Bible, but millions of people lap that sh*t up.
As much as I might not agree with the content of Mein Kampf, I can't help but think it is essentially a historical document, one that shaped (of course not a nice part of) history.
Banning books seems futile. Take The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey for example. It's a philosophy book; one that displays a set of ideas. Yet this book seems to terrify a lot of people. Mein Kampf is the same thing - a set of ideas.
Where a person takes those ideas is down to the individual. It's we who decide who we will become, not a set of words in print.
To be honest, on that basis you could say the same about The Bible, but millions of people lap that sh*t up.
As much as I might not agree with the content of Mein Kampf, I can't help but think it is essentially a historical document, one that shaped (of course not a nice part of) history.
Banning books seems futile. Take The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey for example. It's a philosophy book; one that displays a set of ideas. Yet this book seems to terrify a lot of people. Mein Kampf is the same thing - a set of ideas.
Where a person takes those ideas is down to the individual. It's we who decide who we will become, not a set of words in print.
WWII is the cataclysmic event that has shaped our world. To censor the information for those who want to study what the hell he was thinking to be able to commit these acts would be pretty ignorant. I hope that we are evolving as a collective and study about someone's hateful philosophies without and learn from their mistakes.
Do you believe this will stir up antisemitism?
Do you believe this will stir up antisemitism?
A little side note. I never said that the book could not be studied. Calling Hitler a puppet in world war 2 I'm not buying at all. He was one man yes but he influenced a whole angry nation of Germans to go against communism ie the Jews. If there are over 20 assassination attempts on Hitler it just goes to show how powerful he really was.
the Germans wern't angry. they were in poverty because of the tithes imposed on the nation by the allies after ww1.
Hitler was a good orator, yes and his words united the people. but the people were screaming out for someone to come along to unite them. they saw hope
the third Reich was funded( for the most part at the start) by US corporations. the first Nazi party office outside Germany was in New york
there's so much more in the bigger picture than just Hitler ..who was simply a figure head. when it came down to it he was inept
it's the winners who write history, so on that note I'd suggest taking history out of the school curriculum altogether because its compromised to shit.
..dunno if that constitutes a ban ..I s'pose it does and it doesn't
Hitler was a good orator, yes and his words united the people. but the people were screaming out for someone to come along to unite them. they saw hope
the third Reich was funded( for the most part at the start) by US corporations. the first Nazi party office outside Germany was in New york
there's so much more in the bigger picture than just Hitler ..who was simply a figure head. when it came down to it he was inept
it's the winners who write history, so on that note I'd suggest taking history out of the school curriculum altogether because its compromised to shit.
..dunno if that constitutes a ban ..I s'pose it does and it doesn't
