are angels really just... miserable?

Magdalena said:I loathe how religion is used as a weapon by so many (NOT ALL) of the Christian/Catholic faith.  A tool of manipulation, fear, power, abuse of all kinds.  No wonder Angels are so fucking miserable.  

And that's exactly why I don't attend church or subscribe to any religion, all of them not being interchangeable terms with "Christian", but rather I go it alone with self study, and have learned far more with just God teaching me as opposed to man.

This is like reading the Spirits of Old topic.

http://deepundergroundpoetry.com/forum/discuss/read/7508/

Ironically started by the same poster.

What a buzzkill that turned out to be.

MadameLavender said:
And that's exactly why I don't attend church or subscribe to any religion, all of them not being interchangeable terms with "Christian", but rather I go it alone with self study, and have learned far more with just God teaching me as opposed to man.

Here, here.

Self study is the only way to go.

Otherwise you run the risk of ending up like Harpy or those angry militant atheists who fixate on the contradictions because everyone else's God fails to live up to your expectations.

The Bible does not have an internal logical consistency. No shit.

Glad that you noticed that too, Magnetron. Odd, for the message from an omnipotent God, don't you think?

Harpalycus said:Glad that you noticed that too, Magnetron. Odd, for the message from an omnipotent God, don't you think?

Other people believing in a god that doesn't make sense to you seems to irritate you.

Do you know why that is?

Perhaps you should begin an honest internal dialogue with yourself to discover the root cause.

Magnetron said:[quote-286765-Harpalycus]Glad that you noticed that too, Magnetron. Odd, for the message from an omnipotent God, don't you think?

Other people believing in a god that doesn't make sense to you seems to irritate you.

Do you know why that is?

Perhaps you should begin an honest internal dialogue with yourself to discover the root cause.



[/quote]


why do I like this guy so much?
Maybe it is the dreaded roots of his hair.

I shall study the internal dialogue of my dreams
and perhaps discover the meaning of a tiny upside down skull hanging in the ear...
Oh the mystery of the oracle bone! I have heard the whales sigh...and I feel the earth move with their groaning.

No shit.

Seriously, so much goes on around us that is unexplained. It's what keeps the paranormal investigators, scientists and people with love of life passionate. Lose your passion (love), you lose your sense of life. Close your mind to possibilities which could enrich your life in a positive manner and you will shrink into the shadows of extinction, because the universe is constantly unfolding its good to us.

And that's the weigh it is, at 2:30 in the morning with a mouthful of peanut butter. Have a good life.

wicked lotta judging here for what other people might need to think to keep themselves whole.

my dog is the happiest person i've ever met and i don't think he worries about angels.

might be somethin there in simplicity,contentness.

humans are so busy with the constant complication of over thinking existance......

eat,drink,fuck......enjoy it

i'll take a smile over a spaceship or a conversation with something divine, but i don't judge nobody for that not bein enough....

when is the last time you heard about a puppy killing over religious beliefs?

if you get too big for your britches you might end up a miserable animal that learned how to walk on 2 tryin to kill anything that don't think the same................

humans are greedy.......

need more even if it involves hurting someone else.....

To Magnetron.

Oh dear me, but I’m not a bit irritated. Not a whit. And I think I know the cause of my interest as well as anybody can reasonably know their springs of their own responses.

I am fascinated by human belief, especially irrational belief. The power behind it and the incredible contortions and evasions that are clearly not deliberate.

I find human credulity, in whatever fields, and I include science, astonishing. It makes me wonder how credulous I am and is a salutary reminder.

I am a rationalist. I have always tried to base my conclusions on the evidence and the rational arguments. I may fail, in fact I must fail, but I can do no other.

I believe that my world view should be confronted wherever possible. It should be tested in the crucible of debate. If it fails, and it has done in the past, I should be willing to change it. And I have done.

Finally, I do find monotheistic faith a concern. Its history demonstrates an innate tendency to intolerance and suppression. I believe in maximal free speech and free thought so individuals are free to believe in any God and act accordingly, within the constraints of not impinging on the freedoms of others. But I will do what little I can to encourage the growth of ‘free thought’ and scepticism. I accept that this may have unforeseen, and possibly deleterious, consequences, but all I can go on is my own best estimate of the situation. Which is all anyone can do.

So, you see, I am not reacting against a Freudian father figure, or transferring my self hatred onto another being, or desperately fighting against some insistent inner voice. At least, I’m pretty sure that I am not. I have no hatred of God. How can I, when I have no reason to think he exists? I do not hate Christians. I married one, and very happily. I do not hate religion. It has good aspects as well as bad ones, as does everything in this world (including rationality).  I even accept the slurs and ad hominem attacks with a reasonable degree of equanimity. It is what I am used to.

Nor do I attempt to psychoanalyse those who disagree. I respond to what they say, not why I think they might be saying it.

In line with that I will correct your comment.
It is not ‘a god that doesn't make sense to you’ but a ‘god that doesn’t make rational sense.’ If I am wrong then simply show me in what way.

To HollyDove.

I agree that so much remains unexplained and always will. That does not entail accepting that fairies, unicorns or Zeus with his thunderbolts exists. If there is no evidence or good argument then they can be rejected until and unless, such is forthcoming. Rejecting ideas pro tem because there is no evidence is not closing your mind. If you produce good evidence for fairies I would be fascinated, intrigued, even delighted. I used to believe in UFOs as alien visitations and argued passionately about the evidence. I found the evidence wanting. I do not now consider them a credible hypothesis. If, suddenly, a case broke with apparently good evidence then I would be more than happy to revisit that conclusion.

Do not confuse reasonable scepticism with dogmatic refusal to consider possibilities.
I was asked recently what would make me consider that there could be a God.
The answer is easy, and I mean it.
Evidence and good arguments.
What would make a ‘true believer’ doubt the existence of God?
That is the fascinating question.

I always think to myself.. an angel lives in your left arm.. the devil, lives inside your right..

Your Lighter's in the your right hand, aye?

Tacete said:I always think to myself.. an angel lives in your left arm.. the devil, lives inside your right..

Your Lighter's in the your right hand, aye?

But what if you're left handed...?


To answer Harpalycus: what would make a true believer doubt the existence of God: allowing oneself to lose the ability to love, and not letting your life be enriched by both the good and the bad.

Powerful, the full circle back to reality.

HollyDove said:
why do I like this guy so much?
Maybe it is the dreaded roots of his hair.

I shall study the internal dialogue of my dreams
and perhaps discover the meaning of a tiny upside down skull hanging in the ear...
Oh the mystery of the oracle bone! I have heard the whales sigh...and I feel the earth move with their groaning.

No shit.

Seriously, so much goes on around us that is unexplained. It's what keeps the paranormal investigators, scientists and people with love of life passionate. Lose your passion (love), you lose your sense of life. Close your mind to possibilities which could enrich your life in a positive manner and you will shrink into the shadows of extinction, because the universe is constantly unfolding its good to us.

And that's the weigh it is, at 2:30 in the morning with a mouthful of peanut butter. Have a good life.




With my tired eyes this morning, I thought you had written oracle boner.

Harpalycus said:To Magnetron.

Oh dear me, but I’m not a bit irritated. Not a whit. And I think I know the cause of my interest as well as anybody can reasonably know their springs of their own responses.

I am fascinated by human belief, especially irrational belief. The power behind it and the incredible contortions and evasions that are clearly not deliberate.

I find human credulity, in whatever fields, and I include science, astonishing. It makes me wonder how credulous I am and is a salutary reminder.

I am a rationalist. I have always tried to base my conclusions on the evidence and the rational arguments. I may fail, in fact I must fail, but I can do no other.

I believe that my world view should be confronted wherever possible. It should be tested in the crucible of debate. If it fails, and it has done in the past, I should be willing to change it. And I have done.

Finally, I do find monotheistic faith a concern. Its history demonstrates an innate tendency to intolerance and suppression. I believe in maximal free speech and free thought so individuals are free to believe in any God and act accordingly, within the constraints of not impinging on the freedoms of others. But I will do what little I can to encourage the growth of ‘free thought’ and scepticism. I accept that this may have unforeseen, and possibly deleterious, consequences, but all I can go on is my own best estimate of the situation. Which is all anyone can do.

So, you see, I am not reacting against a Freudian father figure, or transferring my self hatred onto another being, or desperately fighting against some insistent inner voice. At least, I’m pretty sure that I am not. I have no hatred of God. How can I, when I have no reason to think he exists? I do not hate Christians. I married one, and very happily. I do not hate religion. It has good aspects as well as bad ones, as does everything in this world (including rationality).  I even accept the slurs and ad hominem attacks with a reasonable degree of equanimity. It is what I am used to.

Nor do I attempt to psychoanalyse those who disagree. I respond to what they say, not why I think they might be saying it.

In line with that I will correct your comment.
It is not ‘a god that doesn't make sense to you’ but a ‘god that doesn’t make rational sense.’ If I am wrong then simply show me in what way.


I see.

You are so fascinated with human belief ..... that you are compelled to badger others with questions.

And then even though they are volunteering intimate information to virtual strangers on the Internets at your request, you then complain that that they aren't answering your questions in attempts to avoid a debate that they never agreed to having in the first place.

Oh dear, you do seem to take a somewhat one sided view of debate.
I am not compelled. You repeatedly purport to know me better than I do myself.
Nor do I ‘badger’ people with questions. The familiar fallacy of ‘poisoning the well’ with pejorative terms. When someone chooses to make controversial and debateable claims in a public arena, I may point out the incoherencies and contradictions that I believe to be there. If I were to say, in a forum, that God does not exist and is merely an inimical memeplex, I would rightly expect, and receive, immediate response. And so long as they respond, then I consider that I am entitled to continue the debate. It takes two to make a debate.  I do not continue if the individual opts to drop out of the discussion.
You say that they have never agreed to a debate in the first place. Of course they have, by the simple action of answering and making counter points. And, if, in the course of this, they fail to answer cogent questions, then I am entitled to point it out.
If they volunteer intimate information then that is their decision, and most certainly not at my request.

If I were to say, in a forum, that God does not exist and is merely an inimical memeplex, I would rightly expect, and receive, immediate response.

Only a douchebag would insert himself into a group of relatively anonymous people and make such a claim as if his beliefs were the only ones that mattered.

If that were the case, then I would say feel free to take him to task in a debate.

No one here is forcing their beliefs onto others or harming anyone in any particular fashion.

Volunteering information is not entering into debate.

It is giving others insight into one's life.

I say, STFU and be thankful for the insight rather than using the excuse that it is a public forum to deconstruct everyone's belief systems that you feel are irrational in construction, as if that makes those belief systems any less worthwhile.