a turn to religion, anarchy or enlightenment?
case28 said:Here's some interesting science behind free will. A neuroscientists can now predict what you will do four seconds before you do it.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2013/03/27/3724727.htm
Honestly to me that article does nothing to disprove Free Will. It sounds like saying if I watch you make a fire, I'll see the flames before the smoke. Or, I can see a hunter set up a trap before they catch something.
- To me it is all part of the same process, just viewing a stage earlier than the other one. Plus being limited in an outcome to 'a' or 'b' does not sufficiently cover free will which is surely more expansive.
- Pierre
In such a case where the Creator is all-knowing and all-powerful, and creates us and knows our moral or immoral actions, is there not a slight mismatch or missing link?
The Creator may be all-knowing but we as the creation are not. Just becuase the Creator knows the outcome does not mean we the creation do. We therefore have an illusion of Free Will: we have a choice, that is only shown as pre-determined outcome by a higher being.
Plus, does it not in that case also suggest a Free Will action by the Creator to create us. Unless a Designer designed the Creator, and a Builder built the Designer, and they all have Free Will in causing Pre-Determinism.
Some interesting points don't you think?
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2013/03/27/3724727.htm
Honestly to me that article does nothing to disprove Free Will. It sounds like saying if I watch you make a fire, I'll see the flames before the smoke. Or, I can see a hunter set up a trap before they catch something.
- To me it is all part of the same process, just viewing a stage earlier than the other one. Plus being limited in an outcome to 'a' or 'b' does not sufficiently cover free will which is surely more expansive.
- Pierre
In such a case where the Creator is all-knowing and all-powerful, and creates us and knows our moral or immoral actions, is there not a slight mismatch or missing link?
The Creator may be all-knowing but we as the creation are not. Just becuase the Creator knows the outcome does not mean we the creation do. We therefore have an illusion of Free Will: we have a choice, that is only shown as pre-determined outcome by a higher being.
Plus, does it not in that case also suggest a Free Will action by the Creator to create us. Unless a Designer designed the Creator, and a Builder built the Designer, and they all have Free Will in causing Pre-Determinism.
Some interesting points don't you think?
Yes I do. I would say the Creator is the only one with actual autonomy, yes. We have a sense of Free Will because we are not omniscient, also agreed. My pointing that out was most directly for the responsibility of good and evil. Either It is impersonal and doesn't care or is personal and must take responsibility. Either way it's a bit of Fatalism to be sure. Thank you for your thoughts.
sorry jumpin in here guys
but with the acceptance of a know all creator- omniscient
all-knowing: knowing or seeming to know everything
he's a dick if he knows
more so if it's his make
how many grades are you gonna let your kid be an asshole to everyone and fail?
if nobody knows and we jus keep keep fn up than we are the dicks.....
the question should be not who is to blame,skies or ground troops but how do we fix it?
but with the acceptance of a know all creator- omniscient
all-knowing: knowing or seeming to know everything
he's a dick if he knows
more so if it's his make
how many grades are you gonna let your kid be an asshole to everyone and fail?
if nobody knows and we jus keep keep fn up than we are the dicks.....
the question should be not who is to blame,skies or ground troops but how do we fix it?
http://richardathome.wordpress.com/files/2007/07/epicurus-quote.jpg
How to fix it?
The human race would have to understand that it is our responsibility to improve things here and not that of a "God." That would be the first step.
How to fix it?
The human race would have to understand that it is our responsibility to improve things here and not that of a "God." That would be the first step.
Ah, but the human race so far has only got so far as killing God, not replacing them. We have cast down some idols, cling to some even more zealously, but not quite become one yet.
Though there may well be a few godlings operating about here and there.
If enlightenment is mostly self-realisation, and religion is race related but self-denial, and anarchy/atheism is mostly self-fulfilment, then the next step is a self-fulfilment and self-realisation that is also beneficial at a race level. Would it not be too much of a stretch to call someone who acts for the human race while fulfilling themselves but not because a higher power demands/asks it, is on the road to godhood, maybe even a demi-god?
Though there may well be a few godlings operating about here and there.
If enlightenment is mostly self-realisation, and religion is race related but self-denial, and anarchy/atheism is mostly self-fulfilment, then the next step is a self-fulfilment and self-realisation that is also beneficial at a race level. Would it not be too much of a stretch to call someone who acts for the human race while fulfilling themselves but not because a higher power demands/asks it, is on the road to godhood, maybe even a demi-god?
Anonymous
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I say anarchy because of all the different religions and the different ways to express the lord Jesus Christ. The diffrent religions are bunched up and crazy by them selves and to go more into depth with the religion you get more and more crazy thoughts and traditions.
"in my view i see religion (all religion (well maybe not buddhism)) as giving your spiritual, mental and most definitely physical free will over to a higher power and throwing your own free will and own judgement away for someone elses idea of what you should be
(which can be great for society as a whole when all members just obey)
(heres a side note to discuss about religion... isnt the idea of hell perfect? the good think the bad will be punished and the good dont turn bad in fear of punishment. ingenious design really)"
Excuse the plathitudes:
Religion is for people who believe in hell, spirituality is for people who've been there.
I didn't believe in God for a really long time, I thought. Faith was a strange side-dish or something pair shaped. I didn't realise that I put my faith in ideas(like love) in food, what I look like, computer games, drugs, etc. I believed there was reason to everything but not a big man in the sky. The reason is God, ie(for me) God = everything, I have faith that there's a reason for everything.
Reason for me being exactly where I am now, because I did everything I did that landed me exactly where I am.
Sharing my experience is sharing God, The Truth.
(which can be great for society as a whole when all members just obey)
(heres a side note to discuss about religion... isnt the idea of hell perfect? the good think the bad will be punished and the good dont turn bad in fear of punishment. ingenious design really)"
Excuse the plathitudes:
Religion is for people who believe in hell, spirituality is for people who've been there.
I didn't believe in God for a really long time, I thought. Faith was a strange side-dish or something pair shaped. I didn't realise that I put my faith in ideas(like love) in food, what I look like, computer games, drugs, etc. I believed there was reason to everything but not a big man in the sky. The reason is God, ie(for me) God = everything, I have faith that there's a reason for everything.
Reason for me being exactly where I am now, because I did everything I did that landed me exactly where I am.
Sharing my experience is sharing God, The Truth.
I feel like a whole bunch of the messages in this topic are heaps of words saying hardly a thing. Religion isn't for "people who believe in hell". Religion is for people who believe in a religion.
And what on earth does anarchy have to do with religion or atheism?
And what on earth does anarchy have to do with religion or atheism?
MichaelHart said:I feel like a whole bunch of the messages in this topic are heaps of words saying hardly a thing. Religion isn't for "people who believe in hell". Religion is for people who believe in a religion.
And what on earth does anarchy have to do with religion or atheism?
If you conflate religion and order on one side, and atheism and anarchy on the other then there is the answer.
Yet it is all much more elaborate than that really. Anarchy is not just chaos, and religion is so much more than just narrow-minded dogma.
But it seems everything sensible and not so sensible has been said, looks like the topic is spent.
And what on earth does anarchy have to do with religion or atheism?
If you conflate religion and order on one side, and atheism and anarchy on the other then there is the answer.
Yet it is all much more elaborate than that really. Anarchy is not just chaos, and religion is so much more than just narrow-minded dogma.
But it seems everything sensible and not so sensible has been said, looks like the topic is spent.
Please stop throwing the word anarchy around,it dose not mean without rules
or laws, anarchy is liberation socialism and comes from the greek
"without masters" anarchists believe in full social justice without the need of the state and all its paid enforcers or depending on people putting faith in books written thousand of years ago,anarchist beliefs are progressive and based on the hope that mankind can
undo the brainwashing that starts at the age
when kids come fully concious of the world,
anarchists believe in direct democary where no one single group can control the fate of entire country,Anarchists believe in equal access too eduction and healthcare,anarchists believe all.form of landlordism is wrong,the greatest and most influctial anarchists
was russian who lived in the US for 50 years Emma Goldman,i would humbly suggest
that people read her essays before using the word anarchy in such negative terms
or laws, anarchy is liberation socialism and comes from the greek
"without masters" anarchists believe in full social justice without the need of the state and all its paid enforcers or depending on people putting faith in books written thousand of years ago,anarchist beliefs are progressive and based on the hope that mankind can
undo the brainwashing that starts at the age
when kids come fully concious of the world,
anarchists believe in direct democary where no one single group can control the fate of entire country,Anarchists believe in equal access too eduction and healthcare,anarchists believe all.form of landlordism is wrong,the greatest and most influctial anarchists
was russian who lived in the US for 50 years Emma Goldman,i would humbly suggest
that people read her essays before using the word anarchy in such negative terms
