What should be done?
I'm absolutely sick to the guts of seeing news reports of children being abused and treated in the most appalling ways imaginable. Having children of my own, all I think of when I look at them is how lucky I am. I cannot fathom, for even a solitary second,
what makes a person ('person' doesn't suit these wastes of skin, it-things, but for lack of a vile enough word for them, 'person' will have to do).. anyway, I cannot wrap my brain around what makes a person look at a beautiful little child and want to hurt him/her.
I don't know how the law goes in other countries, nor do I know much of it in this country, but from what I'm seeing in Britain, people who abuse their children Don't get much of a punishment. New identities, reduced sentences, 12 years, 4 years, etc..
people who leave their toddler to starve to death in his crib
or tie a baby to a bed and beat her to death
or let their boyfriend break her toddlers spine and pull his fingernails out
or insert objects into their 2 year old daughter, then burn her genitals and hog-tie her for 8-10 hours
or hang their 18 month old boy upside down in a cupboard and whip him till his skin tears.
What can be done with these people? and what can be done to prevent this kind of thing in the first place? because, clearly, whatever is being done now isn't enough. I'm realistic, I know (unless we go all "Equilibrium") that we (the justice system) probably couldn't erradicate this problem completely, but there surely MUST be a way that we can eliminate most of it? or at the very least, put the fear of God into people and perhaps prevent it? There must be alternatives to what we are doing now.
I'm not talking vigilante justice or "Let's torture the bastards" or anything. I mean, get to the rot of the problem. And sort it. An overhaul in the law books, maybe.
The only ways I can think of sorting it are, for the most part, unethical.
I'm hoping for a real discussion, preferably not with descriptions of how you'd torture the wasters. Be it ethical or no (or "Equilibrium" style), how would you deal with weeds that keep coming back?
Reading this makes my heart clench at the brutality of how children are treated and by their own parents?! That is what really grinds my gears. It's sad to what this world has come to ethnically and morally; where parents are beating children, children killing parents and other children, people bombing schools and for what? what logically reason is there for their actions? Though I may not live in Britain I agree that something has to be done about this catastrophe. The people that get off easy for crimes like those shouldn't even be able to walk freely until their dues is paid for how they treated the child. Those that get off under the claim of "insanity" if they were truly in an unwell state of mind, then for the safety of the child(ren) to prevent it from happening again, the parent/guardian should be kept from the child or watched over in the presence of the child(ren). Though when getting down to the root as you've stated there sadly isn't away to completely get rid of this issue, for there are people too set in their ways; yet from it we can learn how to deal with those people, as well as of how to confront and solve this worldwide problem.
I understand your anger. It is horrific what is happening to some children.
You say "get to the rot of the problem". Well, the answer is not in the law, or in fear. You won't want to hear it, but those 'persons' were children once, and endured some events of their own, to bring them to this ultimate pain.
Zoom out again, and the sick cycle is due to the isolationist society engendered in some Western cultures. You won't find this problem as prevalent in close-knit communities. I don't have a ready answer, but I do think that what happens to innocents (children, the vulnerable) are a good indication of the overall psyche of larger groups of people. Overall, the sad stories get more attention, but are thankfully in the minority.
String 'em up by their big toes? Force them to eat nothing but brussel sprouts? A sharper justice involving razor blades? It might make us feel better, but won't get to the rot...
As for you, dear Vi, either tackle it on a small scale near where you live, or stop reading those stories and focus on your loved little ones, for your own sanity. Action or avoidance, because acceptance is not on the cards...
You say "get to the rot of the problem". Well, the answer is not in the law, or in fear. You won't want to hear it, but those 'persons' were children once, and endured some events of their own, to bring them to this ultimate pain.
Zoom out again, and the sick cycle is due to the isolationist society engendered in some Western cultures. You won't find this problem as prevalent in close-knit communities. I don't have a ready answer, but I do think that what happens to innocents (children, the vulnerable) are a good indication of the overall psyche of larger groups of people. Overall, the sad stories get more attention, but are thankfully in the minority.
String 'em up by their big toes? Force them to eat nothing but brussel sprouts? A sharper justice involving razor blades? It might make us feel better, but won't get to the rot...
As for you, dear Vi, either tackle it on a small scale near where you live, or stop reading those stories and focus on your loved little ones, for your own sanity. Action or avoidance, because acceptance is not on the cards...
there are simply to many abuses out there that think damning the helpless is just a form or a twisted kink.
my lines drawn at pedophiles and wife beaters for reasons that don't need to be said. but society where i am gives them the second chances and the benefit of the doubt and takes away 5 years and labels you a felon for me branding an abuser with I Hit Women across his chest.
so F society! Do what needs to be done, you'll only regret not stepping in.
my lines drawn at pedophiles and wife beaters for reasons that don't need to be said. but society where i am gives them the second chances and the benefit of the doubt and takes away 5 years and labels you a felon for me branding an abuser with I Hit Women across his chest.
so F society! Do what needs to be done, you'll only regret not stepping in.
violet said:Some people are just 'like that'. Ya know?
There lies your solution. Being that things cannot be foreseen. Humans are fucked up, intelligent creatures. Only way you could avoid child abuse is for children not to exist. As the brain grows more intelligent through evolution, the defects also increase.
There lies your solution. Being that things cannot be foreseen. Humans are fucked up, intelligent creatures. Only way you could avoid child abuse is for children not to exist. As the brain grows more intelligent through evolution, the defects also increase.
I loathe anyone that would abuse a child in any way.
A step in the right direction would be for more people to speak out when they believe a child is being harmed in any way, be it a neighbour or in the family or even a child you might see in passing regularly where you notice signs of maltreatment.
There needs to be more intervention to stop these things. Too many turn a blind eye.
A step in the right direction would be for more people to speak out when they believe a child is being harmed in any way, be it a neighbour or in the family or even a child you might see in passing regularly where you notice signs of maltreatment.
There needs to be more intervention to stop these things. Too many turn a blind eye.
Anonymous
Form more groups of activists against child abuse. Contact support groups who are already involved in investigations and intervention of abused children. (Must be some info on local connections available on internet.)
http://screen.yahoo.com/inspiration/bikers-change-lives-abused-children-234809991.html
That's a video of one example how to help...
http://screen.yahoo.com/inspiration/bikers-change-lives-abused-children-234809991.html
That's a video of one example how to help...
May I also say, that a more intense system of "checks-and-balances" needs to be implemented as well--to ensure that those individuals who are responsible for the proper interventions, are performing their jobs as required. I work with special needs children, and therefore, trained as a mandatory reporter. However there have been soo many incidents--where i have reported serious, clear -cut cases of child abuse/neglect, where i was actually informed by in-take workers--at various offices of Human Services--that my information did n o t warrant a recorded in-take, or..that the information would need to be evaluated by a supervisor....these responses AFTER i had given/presented proper identification, and trained reporting status!
. . . and, in certain--worse-case senarios--the incidents of abuse were classified as un-founded occurrences-- unfortunately with some horrific consequences. In my opinion, it's another area that is falling short in the efforts to help these poor, innocent victims. There needs to be improvements within the system!
Even though--supposedly --there is no longer "immunity" for those workers who fail to do their job properly, unfortunately, there are too many times when accountability is simply ignored....or dealt with in ways to 'cover-up' culpability.
I'm just stating , that working to resolve system failures, would be another way to help deal with this heinous issue.
. . . and, in certain--worse-case senarios--the incidents of abuse were classified as un-founded occurrences-- unfortunately with some horrific consequences. In my opinion, it's another area that is falling short in the efforts to help these poor, innocent victims. There needs to be improvements within the system!
Even though--supposedly --there is no longer "immunity" for those workers who fail to do their job properly, unfortunately, there are too many times when accountability is simply ignored....or dealt with in ways to 'cover-up' culpability.
I'm just stating , that working to resolve system failures, would be another way to help deal with this heinous issue.
DarkEnchantress said:May I also say, that a more intense system of "checks-and-balances" needs to be implemented as well--to ensure that those individuals who are responsible for the proper interventions, are performing their jobs as required. I work with special needs children, and therefore, trained as a mandatory reporter. However there have been soo many incidents--where i have reported serious, clear -cut cases of child abuse/neglect, where i was actually informed by in-take workers--at various offices of Human Services--that my information did n o t warrant a recorded in-take, or..that the information would need to be evaluated by a supervisor....these responses AFTER i had given/presented proper identification, and trained reporting status!
. . . and, in certain--worse-case senarios--the incidents of abuse were classified as un-founded occurrences-- unfortunately with some horrific consequences. In my opinion, it's another area that is falling short in the efforts to help these poor, innocent victims. There needs to be improvements within the system!
Even though--supposedly --there is no longer "immunity" for those workers who fail to do their job properly, unfortunately, there are too many times when accountability is simply ignored....or dealt with in ways to 'cover-up' culpability.
I'm just stating , that working to resolve system failures, would be another way to help deal with this heinous issue.
This is exactly what I was hoping for; some opinions on the system in general. The law, workers, parents, supporters, etc... improving all of these would be a way to start, wouldn't it?
. . . and, in certain--worse-case senarios--the incidents of abuse were classified as un-founded occurrences-- unfortunately with some horrific consequences. In my opinion, it's another area that is falling short in the efforts to help these poor, innocent victims. There needs to be improvements within the system!
Even though--supposedly --there is no longer "immunity" for those workers who fail to do their job properly, unfortunately, there are too many times when accountability is simply ignored....or dealt with in ways to 'cover-up' culpability.
I'm just stating , that working to resolve system failures, would be another way to help deal with this heinous issue.
This is exactly what I was hoping for; some opinions on the system in general. The law, workers, parents, supporters, etc... improving all of these would be a way to start, wouldn't it?
violet said:[quote-256818-DarkEnchantress]May I also say, that a more intense system of "checks-and-balances" needs to be implemented as well--to ensure that those individuals who are responsible for the proper interventions, are performing their jobs as required. I work with special needs children, and therefore, trained as a mandatory reporter. However there have been soo many incidents--where i have reported serious, clear -cut cases of child abuse/neglect, where i was actually informed by in-take workers--at various offices of Human Services--that my information did n o t warrant a recorded in-take, or..that the information would need to be evaluated by a supervisor....these responses AFTER i had given/presented proper identification, and trained reporting status!
. . . and, in certain--worse-case senarios--the incidents of abuse were classified as un-founded occurrences-- unfortunately with some horrific consequences. In my opinion, it's another area that is falling short in the efforts to help these poor, innocent victims. There needs to be improvements within the system!
Even though--supposedly --there is no longer "immunity" for those workers who fail to do their job properly, unfortunately, there are too many times when accountability is simply ignored....or dealt with in ways to 'cover-up' culpability.
I'm just stating , that working to resolve system failures, would be another way to help deal with this heinous issue.
This is exactly what I was hoping for; some opinions on the system in general. The law, workers, parents, supporters, etc... improving all of these would be a way to start, wouldn't it?[/quote]
Of course...goes w/o saying, Vi! . . . And, first and foremost, abuse cannot be ignored, and must continually be dealt with. When i too k my training, our instructor told us tnat first thing to expect--when reporting a case of abuse--would be to encounter resistance...like repeatedly running head first into brick walls! Best that we could do, is to n e v e r give up...and to "invest in a really sturdy crash helmet!"
But, in all seriousness, we cannot stop fighting this war! Every battle won brings us closer to some type of victory!
. . . and, in certain--worse-case senarios--the incidents of abuse were classified as un-founded occurrences-- unfortunately with some horrific consequences. In my opinion, it's another area that is falling short in the efforts to help these poor, innocent victims. There needs to be improvements within the system!
Even though--supposedly --there is no longer "immunity" for those workers who fail to do their job properly, unfortunately, there are too many times when accountability is simply ignored....or dealt with in ways to 'cover-up' culpability.
I'm just stating , that working to resolve system failures, would be another way to help deal with this heinous issue.
This is exactly what I was hoping for; some opinions on the system in general. The law, workers, parents, supporters, etc... improving all of these would be a way to start, wouldn't it?[/quote]
Of course...goes w/o saying, Vi! . . . And, first and foremost, abuse cannot be ignored, and must continually be dealt with. When i too k my training, our instructor told us tnat first thing to expect--when reporting a case of abuse--would be to encounter resistance...like repeatedly running head first into brick walls! Best that we could do, is to n e v e r give up...and to "invest in a really sturdy crash helmet!"
But, in all seriousness, we cannot stop fighting this war! Every battle won brings us closer to some type of victory!
MrAlptraum said:[quote-256809-violet]Some people are just 'like that'. Ya know?
There lies your solution. Being that things cannot be foreseen. Humans are fucked up, intelligent creatures. Only way you could avoid child abuse is for children not to exist. As the brain grows more intelligent through evolution, the defects also increase.[/quote]
pretty much agreed with this, 'The human factor'. to get to the root of the rot would take endless delving into society and how it's evolved into an enviourment where people feel comfortable inflicting pain and indeed death upon the most vulnerable.
I think that the problem takes root in the minds or genes of these perpetrators just like any other defect. In the instance of the mind I think there are a few variables. circumstances being one, ..monkey see monkey do type thing, although it can't be said that this happens in all cases.
What should be done is a hard question. instincts would tell us to lock abominations like that out of our society or exterminate them altogether.
If we were serious about getting to the root and agree that it's a mental defect, then some might say that they can't help it, their dna or mental defect dictates that they do what they do
one way to stop further abuses in the future would be to try and identify the gene or chemical balance (or lack thereof) in the brain then have everyone in the world undergo a check
I understand that this sounds very radical or far fetched, but the problem as I see it demands radical thinking because conventional thinking has got us nowhere thus far
There lies your solution. Being that things cannot be foreseen. Humans are fucked up, intelligent creatures. Only way you could avoid child abuse is for children not to exist. As the brain grows more intelligent through evolution, the defects also increase.[/quote]
pretty much agreed with this, 'The human factor'. to get to the root of the rot would take endless delving into society and how it's evolved into an enviourment where people feel comfortable inflicting pain and indeed death upon the most vulnerable.
I think that the problem takes root in the minds or genes of these perpetrators just like any other defect. In the instance of the mind I think there are a few variables. circumstances being one, ..monkey see monkey do type thing, although it can't be said that this happens in all cases.
What should be done is a hard question. instincts would tell us to lock abominations like that out of our society or exterminate them altogether.
If we were serious about getting to the root and agree that it's a mental defect, then some might say that they can't help it, their dna or mental defect dictates that they do what they do
one way to stop further abuses in the future would be to try and identify the gene or chemical balance (or lack thereof) in the brain then have everyone in the world undergo a check
I understand that this sounds very radical or far fetched, but the problem as I see it demands radical thinking because conventional thinking has got us nowhere thus far
"one way to stop further abuses in the future would be to try and identify the gene or chemical balance (or lack thereof) in the brain then have everyone in the world undergo a check
I understand that this sounds very radical or far fetched, but the problem as I see it demands radical thinking because conventional thinking has got us nowhere thus far"
Spot on, Lep. Absolutely. (And hence my mention of the movie, Equilibrium).
There are radical things that can be done; but then there's ethics and freedom standing in front of them.
I mean, say, for example, a woman murdered her child after systematically torturing him for the 6 short years of his life, goes to jail for 12 years, gets released... has she really been 'rehabilitated'? How can we be sure? We can't. So, would we have her sterilized? Does she deserve the freedom to be a risk to yet another child?
And who's to say she wouldn't become a stepmum..
So, do we put a support worker by her side 24/7, just in case?
There are radical solutions.. but some create radical problems too.
Capital punishment?
An island?
Injections?
I understand that this sounds very radical or far fetched, but the problem as I see it demands radical thinking because conventional thinking has got us nowhere thus far"
Spot on, Lep. Absolutely. (And hence my mention of the movie, Equilibrium).
There are radical things that can be done; but then there's ethics and freedom standing in front of them.
I mean, say, for example, a woman murdered her child after systematically torturing him for the 6 short years of his life, goes to jail for 12 years, gets released... has she really been 'rehabilitated'? How can we be sure? We can't. So, would we have her sterilized? Does she deserve the freedom to be a risk to yet another child?
And who's to say she wouldn't become a stepmum..
So, do we put a support worker by her side 24/7, just in case?
There are radical solutions.. but some create radical problems too.
Capital punishment?
An island?
Injections?
that's a good question. scientists are being funded all the time for the most ridiculous things. I don't think funding such a project would be terribly expensive, wages would probably be the highest overhead because there's already equipment available to carry out genetic studies, there's been countless genes identified over the past decades , behavioural genes that scientists have specifically looked for.
I think that if money is the only thing that would impede such a project, then that says more than enough about our society and priorities.
I don't disagree with your earlier post about more stringent checks on existing employees, I think that'd be a great start along with tighter controls and surveillance on released offenders. I see that option more of a containment rather than a clean sweep (which I totally accept is probably unattainable, but I was trying to think radically)
well yes Violet, my thoughts would lean very much towards injections, it seems like the most humane thing to do. I understand that there's the danger of setting precedents ie "well lets check for this too" and of course there's room for a governmental abuse or the danger of being subsequently controlled by injections like Equilibrium. It goes full circle back to The human factor
I think that if money is the only thing that would impede such a project, then that says more than enough about our society and priorities.
I don't disagree with your earlier post about more stringent checks on existing employees, I think that'd be a great start along with tighter controls and surveillance on released offenders. I see that option more of a containment rather than a clean sweep (which I totally accept is probably unattainable, but I was trying to think radically)
well yes Violet, my thoughts would lean very much towards injections, it seems like the most humane thing to do. I understand that there's the danger of setting precedents ie "well lets check for this too" and of course there's room for a governmental abuse or the danger of being subsequently controlled by injections like Equilibrium. It goes full circle back to The human factor
