Naked and shameful
Cthonian said:It's been a long long time since I read any part of the bible with any kind of effort, but I always interpreted that entire section to just be illustrative of the weakness of man and the omnipotence of god. The nakedness, fruit, snake, garden etc are just details. The message is that humans can (and will) fail, and god can (and will) always punish.
That does seem to be the standard message. For myself, I took to reading in renegade fashion whole books at a time instead of networking a few verses here and there into the present view..and instead saw, for myself, that what the Bible has to say and what the standard version report of it purports are not in alignment, at least not to me.
If Christ died on the Cross and we continued the message as it was, then Christ was a failure and a cruel joke and a fool. What would have been the point? There must then be some update of the story line or else what? More of the same?
That does seem to be the standard message. For myself, I took to reading in renegade fashion whole books at a time instead of networking a few verses here and there into the present view..and instead saw, for myself, that what the Bible has to say and what the standard version report of it purports are not in alignment, at least not to me.
If Christ died on the Cross and we continued the message as it was, then Christ was a failure and a cruel joke and a fool. What would have been the point? There must then be some update of the story line or else what? More of the same?
Ecclesiastes 1:16-18
16 - I communed with mine own heart, saying, Lo, I am come to great estate,
and have gotten more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem:
yea, my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.
17 - And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived
that this also is vexation of spirit.
18 - For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
16 - I communed with mine own heart, saying, Lo, I am come to great estate,
and have gotten more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem:
yea, my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.
17 - And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived
that this also is vexation of spirit.
18 - For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
Anonymous
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Genesis 3:3-5
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden,
God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall
be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Commentary:
Oneness emerges from the awareness of the inevitable existence of duality,
of interconnected opposites: male and female, beauty and ugliness, good
and evil. The sage accepts the duality that is the basis of life and is
anchored in peace and tranquility while facing the pleasures and pains
of life exactly like the ordinary person. The ordinary person does not
accept the duality, attempts to choose between them, and is unhappy.
- Ramesh Balsekar
http://look.gvsu.edu:8000/shehulk/uploads/47/Duality-of-Humanity.jpg
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden,
God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall
be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Commentary:
Oneness emerges from the awareness of the inevitable existence of duality,
of interconnected opposites: male and female, beauty and ugliness, good
and evil. The sage accepts the duality that is the basis of life and is
anchored in peace and tranquility while facing the pleasures and pains
of life exactly like the ordinary person. The ordinary person does not
accept the duality, attempts to choose between them, and is unhappy.
- Ramesh Balsekar
http://look.gvsu.edu:8000/shehulk/uploads/47/Duality-of-Humanity.jpg
Anonymous
Egoist said:Being naked either way is nothing to be ashamed of.
You are who you are, so why be ashamed of vulnerability of emotions?
And why be ashamed of your own body as well?
Just seems like a waste of guilt.
I think the discussion was to do with why Adam and Eve are presented as being "naked and shameful" after eating of the fruit of the tree, not whether being naked is something to be ashamed of in general.
You are who you are, so why be ashamed of vulnerability of emotions?
And why be ashamed of your own body as well?
Just seems like a waste of guilt.
I think the discussion was to do with why Adam and Eve are presented as being "naked and shameful" after eating of the fruit of the tree, not whether being naked is something to be ashamed of in general.
Warrior princess I love that quote from Balsekar, and to Cthonian sometimes defiance of authority and rebellion against the rules is the beggining of the learning process. I think the reason why God told them not to eat is because he felt they were not ready to hlandle the truth about good and evil, thats why they acted like embarassed lil kids, but just as the kid who touches the hot stove against all warning they had to get burned in order to learn.
wolfman said:Warrior princess I love that quote from Balsekar, and to Cthonian sometimes defiance of authority and rebellion against the rules is the beggining of the learning process. I think the reason why God told them not to eat is because he felt they were not ready to hlandle the truth about good and evil, thats why they acted like embarassed lil kids, but just as the kid who touches the hot stove against all warning they had to get burned in order to learn.
Yes, and yet it is interesting that not one human being learned in 4,000 historical years....until Christ, so the First Adam brings shame and the second Adam cures it. In both cases, free will is circumvented...
Yes, and yet it is interesting that not one human being learned in 4,000 historical years....until Christ, so the First Adam brings shame and the second Adam cures it. In both cases, free will is circumvented...
